Short answer: 8 people
Bible reference: Genesis 7:13
“In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.”
The Bible calls Noah “a preacher of righteousness” [2 Peter 2:5]. Noah tried to warn others about God’s coming judgment for sin, but no one listened. The door of the Ark was open to anyone who wanted to be saved, until the day the rain came and God shut the door of the Ark. They ignored Noah’s warnings until it was too late. Everyone on the Ark was saved. Everyone outside the Ark died.
Only Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives were safe on the Ark. Except these 8 people [1 Peter 3:20], every other person died.
Just like then, preachers are warning people of God’s judgment for sin, the bad things we do when we know not to and the good things we fail to do when we know we should. And just as there was a Door on the Ark people could enter and be saved, there is a Door of Salvation today. That Door is Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only name under heaven and earth by which men must be saved. There was only one Door to the Ark; there is only one way to be saved from the judgment of our sin.
Ask Jesus to save you from your sins today, while the Door is still open.
Noah's Ark: Beyond Flannelgraph 
“Only Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives were safe on the Ark.”
It’s funny how this story and creationism are all about incest and inbreeding.
Actually, the Biblical prohibition against marrying a close relative [which we now term incest] was not given until the time of Moses. By this time, genetic mutations had increased to the point where this was inadvisable due to possible birth defects, etc.
Your comments were meant to be insulting and mocking, but they only serve to demonstrate how little you understand the Bible you so strongly object to. In the future, I suggest you seek to understand first and disagree after.
Amen!! Rev. Tony, thank you for clearing that up. I was going to say much the same thing. Earliest man was one of the most perfect forms of man that God had created. Over time and through sin, the imperfections became more prominant and marrying close relations was prohibited. Again, thanks!! God bless!!
no whats funny is that nobody alive today was alive back then. yet they are fighting points like they seen it all. and nobody is going to give one way or the other.and they claim to be christians.cutting each other down were is your love brothers and sisters.as for you non- belivers i guess is that something really bad has not happened to you yet. but when it does, i pray it dont but when it does you will beg the God you dont belive in to help you God help us all.
j par,
Your comments are abusive and childish. Stop insulting everyone.
I would ask you to calm down and would point out that the Bible claims to be a historical record of what happened back then. I would also point out that you are engaging in this fight, cutting people down and being a hypocrite. I don’t want to ban you, but you need to be a bit more respectful.
Regards,
Tony
excellent reply. ❤
How convenient. Microbiology was understood in biblical times. Explain me this Rev. If that is indeed the case, who did Moses’s grandchildren marry and propagate with? I have studied all the major religions and these stories are great parables at times when the violence is rated teen, but just stories. Like mother goose and the bogyman. It is time to stop wading in the obscurity of faith and bask in the glory of truth. Something the bible knows very little about.
Your questions are really off-topic. The Bible is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ. What doubts you have should take into account that no other authority on Earth can make such a claim.
if incest is ruled out Adam /EVE HAD ONLY TWO SONS WHERE DID THIRE TWO WIFES COME FROM?
Genesis 5:4 states that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters.
What mutations are you referring too? God created man in his image as perfect as god himself. How then, can there be degeneration? Mutation can only happen in an imperfect specimen.
God’s originally perfect creation was cursed when Adam sinned against God. This supernatural curse began the mutations.
G’Day from Australia Rev! 1. 150 years after there was only 8 people we have hundreds of thousands of slaves to build the pyramids. 2. thousands of geologists know exactly where to look in stone and ice for such a flood and yet no evidence has been found. 3. Biologists have proven certain plant life still in existance today could not survive such a flood. 4. There is simply not enough water on earth to create a flood as described 5. This is just a story made up by primitive men. 6. The bible is just a story made up by primitive men
1. We have no idea whether Noah and his family incorporated hired labor to finish the Ark. It’s possible they did. We do know it was 120 years between the time God told Noah to build the Ark and the time of the Flood: How Long Did It Take to Build the Ark?
2. Geologists are using the presumption of millions of years. They presume that the fossil record was laid down over millions of years; creationists believe that the majority of the fossil record was laid down rapidly during the Flood. Thus, secular geologists see no evidence of the Flood where creationists seem ample record of it: What the Fossil Record Actually Shows
3. Plants have speciated and become more specialized since the Flood. I’m prettyy sure they’re comparing apples to oranges.
4. Yes, there was: Where Did the Flood Waters Come From?
5 & 6. Nope. The Bible’s veracity is validated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ: The Everlasting Gospel. As Peter wrote: “For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty [1 Peter 1:16].
i love your comment. You are so right. And it would be really nice if people would study the word of God before they commented on something concerning the Bible.
excellent response. the world loves to use scripture to judge those who believe, but don’t realize that those same scriptures will be used against them on judgement day. its like the worldly saying, “when you point your finger at someone, you have 3 other fingers pointing back at you”. God Bless You For Your Response, hopefully he will take it. what the world doesn’t understand is that when a person becomes a “true” believer”, he nows sees both sides of life. the old, which is dominated by death. and the new which is dominated by life. you “must” be born-again. keep the faith, our redemption draws near.
“Actually, the Biblical prohibition against marrying a close relative [which we now term incest] was not given until the time of Moses. By this time, genetic mutations had increased to the point where this was inadvisable due to possible birth defects, etc. ”
And yet the science of genetics wasn’t around until centuries later. How did they ever come up with the concept of genetic mutation within the human genome at that time? Could you point me to that part in the bible that explores empiricism pertaining to genetic birth defects and gene mutation?
I never said that humans based their laws on genetics, so let’s dispense with that poorly thatched straw man. The Law came from God and he dispensed that Law at the appropriate time based on His infinite knowledge. Your objectio
I never said that humans based their laws on genetics, so let’s dispense with that poorly thatched straw man. The Law came from God and he dispensed that Law at the appropriate time based on His infinite knowledge.
Let me please preface my email by declaring that I am an ATHEIST! Having said that, it never ceases to amaze me how many people from various beliefs come on this site and question the validity of a belief system.
According to the theist God is fully capable of performing supernatural feats that are known to us as miracles. These miracles are not based on science, therefore weather they occurred or not can’t be proven by scientific evidence. This belief system is purely based on faith. Questioning the faith of a group of people in their belief system is excercise in futility!
If God is capable of making a donkey talk, make a blind man see, raise the dead, he is fully capable of making those animals reproduce, no matter what the conditions!
As a person who was raised a theist and now has adopted atheism, I am pleading with people not to come on this site and question their faith. If your purpose is to question their faith by bringing logic into the conversation, please don’t. You are not going to accomplish anything. They will always have an answer for the inexplicable. Faith is a powerful phenomenal and can’t be questioned! Thanks!
Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy® Note 4.
Well, it’s not based on pure faith… which is to say, not blind faith. There are reasons to believe, and such reasons imply that logic is being utilized.
As far as the rest of your argument goes, you’re correct: God is certainly capable of supernatural things, and what we have here are two different paradigms; this being the case on this latter point, we’re mostly going to argue past one another. Of course, there’s always the chance God may use my argument to change someone’s mind…
What always interests me (and this held true for me during the agnostic decade of my life as well) is how anyone whose view of science is wed to pure naturalism can criticize someone who believes in the supernatural at all. I mean, all naturalism can give us is all-natural answers that may or may not be true and are certainly false where the supernatural was involved. It cannot tell us if the supernatural was involved because it can only consider natural answers. So if the man wed to naturalism were consistent and honest in his answers, he’d have to admit that his worldview is agnostic concerning the supernatural, for denying the supernatural is outside the abilities of his paradigm. It’s quite possible he’s wrong and will never know it!
Meanwhile, he has to allow that nature can do things that are pretty supernatural: everything can come from nothing or unobservable comic book multiverses by processes that we do not see today and cannot repeat; that specified complex information such as that found in DNA can come about without intelligence, when we’ve never seen such information come about without an intelligent agent; that life can come from non-life, when no one’s seen that outside of science fiction; and that a frog can really become a prince if we just give it enough time and mutation, even though the changes we see today by the processes observed today do not change frogs into anything other than another variety of frog… such allowances take faith. At least as much faith as my worldview.
you referring to King James Version? Key word Version. One mans account of the Hebrew language.The very first translation of the Hebrew Bible was into Greek. Trusting this mans version you do not know that Adam means mankind not one person. who to say Jimmy point is wrong.
The King James was also translated from the original languages. This doesn’t mean they’re a different version of the truth, but simply the same truth in a different language. Your second point is nonsense in light of the existence of resources like Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. We definitely know what those words mean. Not even die hard skeptics would make that argument because the facts are what they are. Only the uninformed would attempt to say such a thing.
Good day, Sir. Does that meant all of us originated from the eight people that survives the Great flood. Does this also meant that all of us gotten our DNA from these eight people. Thank you.
Yes
Yes I quite agree with you, however I would like to add that it’s more of common sense than law. How else would Earth have been populated if not by in-family marriages and breeding. Equally as we grow older and as time passes on knowledge increases and we learn not to do certain things anymore because of their side effects. Understanding first before criticism.
Thank you.
Bambo
Mutations increasing isn’t the reason why it’s inadvisable to mate with close relatives. It’s because of the already existing recessive genes and the lack of genetic diversity.
Jimmy Azon,
Your comments reveal a misunderstanding of Christian theology and creationism. Creationists affirm that since Adam and Eve were created in a “very good” or perfect genetic state, but then began dying at the fall, that genetic copy errors would have been minimal until after the Noachian bottleneck event. Note that the Bible declares long lifespans for most pre-Flood patriarchs, whereas lifespans afterwards were significantly reduced. The dispersion of people groups at Babel increased the number of copy errors due to a more selective intermingling of the gene pool. By the time of Moses, copy errors had become numerous enough that God finally forbade the intermarriage of close relatives. In other words, inbreeding [which assumes genetic problems] was not really possible until the Levitical law was passed.
As for the charge of incest, this is ludicrous. Shem, Ham and Japheth each had their own wives.
What you’re trying to avoid here is that the account of Noah is all about righteous judgment against man’s sin by the Creator God they rejected… and an exclusive method of salvation that was free to all but likewise rejected. By parallel, Jesus Christ the Creator is the only means of salvation, graciously offered to all for their sin, but He is likewise rejected today by sinful men such as you.
-Tony, DefGen.org
I really feel i must point out that Shem, Ham and Japheth may have each had their own wives but when they have kids, their kids will be having kids with their 1st cousins….inbreeding….incest
will you explain that to me?
Hannah,
The Biblical prohibition against marrying a close relative [which we now term incest] was not given until the time of Moses. By this time, genetic mutations had increased to the point where this was inadvisable due to possible birth defects, etc., at which point God forbid marrying a close relative.
-Tony
Tony, I have to laugh when I read this. You make all this up and speak in such an authoritative tone that you present it as a fact, even though it is only happening in your mind.
Lu,
It is not enough to make an accusation; one must prove one’s accusation… and you have not.
Ultimately, many who reject God and His revealed Word do so because of pride. They are so invested in their personal beliefs that they refuse to honestly weigh the evidence. To accept the Bible as true would require them to think seriously about God and their responsibility to Him. To accept the Bible as true might require a change of lifestyle. As Erwin Lutzer stated, “The truth is, few people have an open mind, especially about matters of religion. . . . Thus, perverted doctrines and prejudices are easily perpetuated from one generation to another.”
Evidence is fact, not belief. You attribute pride as the reason that those who use their minds and see the world around them, disagree with you. This tact ignores the obvious; that the creationists foundation is based on making excuses for their every flaw in their logic.
I have only seen this type of “logic” employed in one other non-Christian setting. It was at a Star-Trek convention in Las Vegas where two fans explained why the matter-anti-matter reactors worked in this clearly fictional scenario. It would seem that the laws of physics don’t apply once the impulse engines reach the speed of light.
It’s a pity that people fear the stigma that surrounds seeking professional psychiatric assistance.
Facts are not self-interpretive. Facts are interpreted according to our pre-existing beliefs.
As for flaws in logic, I rejected the all-natural just-so story you find so “logical” precisely because it is logically inconsistent. Those eho affirm pure naturalism must also inconsistently affirm that nature can do supernatural things: that everything can come from nothing [or from unprovable, unobservable comic book multiverses when our observable sample size of universes is exactly ONE], that life can come from non-life [when that’s never been observed either] and that a frog can really become a prince if we just give it enough time [which temporal limitation prevents us from observing said phenomenon]. Creationists affirm that a supernatural God created the world in 6 days, that the world fell by Adam’s sin and was judged by a world-wide flood later. God afterward promised the uniformity of nature in Genesis 8:22, so creationists expect that since the Flood the world has operated by uniform processes. So…
Creationist worldview: Logically consistent
Evolutionary worldview: Not so much.
Good luck at the cons.
RH, you are so very correct. I was one of those people. My pride blinded me in everything I said, touched, or laid eyes upon. I am an educated man who rose through the ranks of corporate America, made more money than most and lived a life on the coast, of which, my friends could only dream. In short, I had it all; everything I had ever wanted was in my possession. The only thing I didn’t have, was a relationship with and belief in Jesus Christ.
You can bet your boots, WHEN THERE IS PRIDE (AND GLORY NOT GIVEN TO GOD) THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A FALL.
And boy, did I fall. I lost everything due to pride and my sinful nature. I lost my career, my reputation, my family and many friends. All because “I knew better than to believe that hokey story.”
“Pride is what made the devil the devil. Pride leads to every other vice, it is the complete anti-God state of mind.” (from the book “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis)
I would’ve been one of those that told Noah he was a kook and idiot. I would’ve watched the Ark door shut with a smug smile and turned to the bartender to ask for another drink.
Because of pride, I am starting over… square one. I have nothing material, but I have everything spiritual. For what are earthly riches without peace? (hint: nothing. hellooo???)
I am telling all of you who are “above” believing in Jesus Christ, those of you who are too smart, too cool, too in love with yourself… your time will come. I pray that you find our loving, compassionate, forgiving Lord before that time. Truly, miracles will and do happen through Him.
God bless you all. 🙂
Many of us do not reject God at all. Not in the least. What we reject are people who read the most difficult book ever written, ignore the history of its origin and ignore the history of the first organized religion i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, the politics involved, the battle to get the Book in everyone’s hands so that they too can read it and be just as confused, yet because of their arrogance and power they want to tell the rest of us what is “true” and what is not. The One.True.Church should be the subject of controversy, not the Word of God and those who lived before and immediately after Christ who wrote the gospels. No one can be so powerful that he can foretell what will become of us after we die and I see no difference in the fundamental Christians who teach that their route to salvation any different than the fanatic Muslims who kill the infidels than those who teach little children that unless they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and belong to a certain club “i.e. church’ they will burn in hell forever. Religion, when it becomes so divisive is more powerful than the mind altering drugs that are destroying so many people and their families. I attended my beloved older sister’s funeral to hear her preacher say, and I quote, “For those of you with Sister Mary’s “like faith”, you will see her again”. He might as well have said, if you do not share the narrow minded beliefs of her religion, you will not see her again. And, as far as I know, there are only two places to go after we die according to her faith. So…I would be more afraid of believing and practicing such a mechanical way of worship than just to say “I know enough to know what I do not know”, and be humble enough to admit this.
Well, the Bible is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy (unlike the Koran) and the Gospel message is supernaturally authenticated by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and his fulfillment of Messianic Bible prophecy. Does that help you make a distinction between competing religious authority claims?
It doesn’t matter if it’s divisive or if some people are doing harm in its name. All of the runny-middled, burnt-edged, eggshell-ridden omelettes in the world do not invalidate the recipe for the perfect omelette. What matters whether it’s true and if you personally are following it.
I know this discussion is several years old but my belief is that most religious people have extremely closed minds. Their perceived truth may not be THE truth either but getting them to at least acknowledge that is neigh on impossible – faith goes both ways.
I was raised to believe in YEC but after high school I spent a decade as an agnostic evolutionist. When I returned to the fold, I was a theistic evolutionist for quite some time until I came to the conclusion that the YEC position was the most logically consistent position on origins. Being religious does not necessarily mean that one has a closed mind. I’m not even sure from what data you draw the conclusion that MOST religious people gave EXTREMELY closed minds… Are you’re only interactions with religious people online??
My Bible says, “The Lord said to Noah, come into the ark, you and ALL your household, because I have seen that you are rightous before Me in this generation.” Now Noah was over 600 years old, I’m 65, my household totals 21. So how many in Noah”s household.
Glen,
You’re assuming a standard rate of fertility for all humanity and ignoring the further revelation of Scripture. The Bible also says that only eight souls were saved: Noah, his three sons and their respective wives.
God will do this once again, will you remain on the shores or climb aboard mate?
Actually God promised not to destroy the world again via a flood. Am I assume you’re speaking in metaphor?
@tony breeden – let (J-PAR) be brother…….it can be plainly sean he doesn’t mean harm, it’s a forum brother, turn it down some..let his opinion be what it is, and let yours be what it is, and lets keep it moving, everyone here is seeking something, and some are learning things, and some are decerning things…let him have his say, its o.k…he’s not being disrespectful lets keep it real brother..its not that serious, especially when we’re being recorded trying to seek truth..this is the internet, (now) my question to you is who controls it?…my brother nothing is a secret here….be carefull of how you speak, and your actions, because things could be held against you..they can call you many things and see you as something threatful, be careful of your words….words mean alot in this world and they’re played with….satan is the god of this world, dont forget that…and if you want to make something known that you are not feeling, use the word of the Almighty father, like his SON did, and be truthful..GLORY TO THE KING YAHSHUA ha meshiach–let his KINGDOM COME!!!!
Liesh,
J par’s conversation with me occurred two years ago. I did not approve all of his comments because, as I noted, the comments he submitted for moderation were abusive. I did not approve or publish those comments, but suffice it to say that I intend for this to be a family-oriented site and his language was way out of line in this setting. This is not an open forum. This is a ministry website, an initiative of DefGen.org. This is my fold and I will not allow butting rams and wolves in sheep’s clothing to abuse my flock.
Regards,
Tony Breeden
DefGen.org
No invest or embreeding. Other people enter the ark if you read with understanding. Genesis 7:16 And they went in 2 of all flesh the ones that God had commanded. The one on the earth died
Danny, the context of that verse makes it clear that “all flesh” only referred to the animal kinds mentioned prior. Likewise your claim does not account for 1 Peter 3:20. You basically have to call the Apostle Peter a liar to say that there were more than 8 people aboard the Ark.
If we read the Hebrew we find that there was 26 people on the ark, Only four of them were the sons of Adam the sons of God. God placed on the ark 14 white sons of Satan and 4 black sons of Satan. and the last loaded was Noah’s family of eight of the line of Adam.
Go ahead and check me out the translation in English is incorrect.
So 4 women and 4 righteous men and 18 unrighteous men with no women unspoken for. Because God was so concerned with the wickedness of the world that he decided to wipe everyone out… except 18 sons of the Devil. That is not only racist but quite simply illogical and, more importantly, NOT TRUE. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say this, but you are welcome to correct me if you care to cite your sources.
It also says that there were 7 pairs of (clean animals ) put on.the ark to be used for food.
They didn’t interbreed. There were other people in the world as we read further.
It never says that but you’re welcome to show us where you got that impression.
as usual, religion is always indignant against anyone with a valid question about the early times of humanity and the old standby YOU must believe even though they cannot prove thier beliefs in realty. I’m still waiting for Gods’ 800 #, newsletter, or app and have not seen it yet. Just be glad we are not muslims or we could just kill for not believing (another sham money making gimmick) in the almighty allah (yeah you guys prove it also). All the religons founded after the catholic sham wanted in on the money being generated from the so called blind faith followers. As far as being an uniformed person about religon I was raised in the catholic faith and could tell you some good stories about how that worked out.
While I understand your position on religious hypocrisy, the Bible does not teach blind faith.
Out of curiosity though, and in the interests to holding the prevailing modern mythology to a consistent standard, how much faith does it take to believe that everything came from nothing [or unobservable comic book multiverses], the life came from nonlife and that a frog can become a prince after all if we just give it millions of years?
Your misunderstanding of physics, biology and even basic science is impressive.
Perhaps a little humility and study about subjects such as evolution, abiogenesis and the big bang would stand you in good stead.
College educated. Studied all of that but without the credulity most fresh-out-of-high-school students come in with.
I ultimately rejected the all-natural just-so story I was being assured was true because naturalism is self-defeating. After all, naturalism must believe that nature can do supernatural things: that everything can come from nothing [or undetectable comic book multiverses when our observable sample size of universes is exactly ONE], that life can come from non-life, and that a frog can really become a prince… if we just give it enough time and chance.
At least my worldview’s consistent with the one we observe
The same faith that it takes to believe that everything was made by an invisible being, who has existed forever. Forever, my friend! “Where did he came from?” “Oh, he has been alive forever… End if discussion!” Please, if that isn’t the lamest and laziest excuse of them all!
If He created time and space, He exists outside their restraints. My point is that pure naturalism, upon which the evolutionary all-natural Just-so story is based, is self-contradictory. Those who affirm pure naturalism must also contradict itself by affirming that nature can do supernatural things. Both our worldviews utilize faith and evidence, but only one of our worldviews is logically consistent. If the idea that God is eternal and had no beginning is the “lamest and laziest excuse of them all” then the Big Bang multiverse idea that everything came from an eternal singularity that has always existed as part of any unobservable multiverse is what? Oops, Jaime just got caught having a double standard for his own worldview. uh oh.
The ark story is impossible for innumerable reasons.
Here are five good ones.
1: The current Genetic diversity among humans and animals is impossible to generate in a 6 thousand year span from only 2 breeding models of a species (or 8 in the case of humans).
2: The spacial problems that would have been exhibited on the ark are immense. 35,000 different species of spiders alone exist today. Without evolution, how do you even fit 70,000 spiders on such a vessel… Much less the rest of the creatures. (The average spider weighs in at about 1 gram… With some being much less, and some being much more. That is an average of about 70,000 grams… Or 70 kilograms… About the weight of the average human… If you boiled them all into a pile… The average spider is less than an inch long… And would need quite a bit of food to survive for 40 days…)
3: A worldwide deluge is not evident in modern geology. Such an event would have desalinized and deoxegenated the seas and oceans and destroyed almost all species of fish and waterborne animals.
4: Where did the amount of water required to cover the landmass of earth a: come from… and b: go to? If it was stored in atmospheric clouds before the flood… Where did it go? If it was generated miraculously, then why bother? Wouldn’t just miraculously striking everyone else down be a far more intelligent method of performing such a task?
5: The timeframe offerred in Genesis is impossible. For Noah to have loaded so many species of animals onto the ark (lets just estimate at around 15,000 major species. Google it…) he would have had to have moved an animal on board every 20 seconds for 7days, non-stop. (If two by two, then thats two animals every 40 seconds.) Modern biodiversity studies show that there are at least 3 million unique land-going species of animals, excluding bacteria and waterbourne animals. That’s a conservative estimate. The best figure we have is closet to 6.2 million. On one ark. In 7 days. Ok…
Aside from these problems…How do you morally justify murdering the entire population of the earth? Suposedly, god gave Noah the message… But there is no way Noah could have delivered the message to everyone… Nor would there have been space. Plus… It seems like such a waste to bother with that. For an omnipotent god… Why a flood? Why an Ark? Would it not have saved veryone alot of time ans explaination if he just said “I will strike every human but Noah’s family with a moderately sized stone travelling at a decent speed. Pooof. You end up with a bunch of rocks, and millions dead anyway.
But a flood? Maybe it was used… You know… Because almost every creation story of the time included a global deluge somewhere in it, and it was just a popular thing for a religion to say…
So it has never occured to you that the reason a Flood was a popular detail for nearly all people groups across the globe to include was because it actually happened?
I refer you to this site for answers to your first 5 questions. These objections have been answered ad nauseam. http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers#/topic/flood-geology-fossils
As for why the Flood was justified, I submit the following: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/before-the-flood/why-did-the-flood-happen/
you completely ignored his post of that it be physically impossible for the facts of the bible to be true…he even got 1 thing wrong. they were on the boat for 1 year not 40 days. (thats alot of food and animals in a boat 1/3 the size of the Titanic) .instead of believing science you choose to believe in a fairy tale that you have zero evidence that it could be possible …I assume you don’t believe any of the Polytheism religions ..what makes your stories more credible…atheist and Christians are almost identical. Atheist reject all religions as false. Christians reject all religions as false except one Your 99% in agreement with atheists. Welcome to the club.
Pete,
You object in ignorance of what creationists actually believe. Given the Biblical dimensions of the Ark and the number of animals required, only 1/3 of the Ark would have been needed for the animals kinds sent, leaving the rest of the vessel for food and living quarters. See the following article for more specifics: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/noahs-zoo/how-many-animals-were-on-board-the-ark/. You may also want to check out the articles here: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/noahs-zoo/feeding-the-animals/
I wouldn’t say we have zero evidence. You simply disagree with out interpretation of the facts. Given your objections, I would say you haven’t really investigated creationists claims for yourself.
As for your comments on why polytheism and pantheism don’t cut it, there’s actually a reasonable answer to that as well, given on one of my other sites: http://siriusknotts.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/zeus-jesus-the-flying-spaghetti-monster-why-the-biblical-creator-is-the-only-rational-possibility/
Seriously … why bother …. they have answers for it all … we are not supposed to think because if we do we are either “Abusive” or “stupid” or “too proud” – we are all wrong and they will always be right … its all good … it’s all flawed, they just don’t pay attention to those parts! (you know … Eve and Adam … had 3 sons … hmmmm where did everyone else come from then? oh yeah, they found other people … that were not created by God … because they created that ring of rocks … flaws flaws flaws
tabatha,
Genesis 5:4 says that “After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.” That’s where everyone else came from.
-Tony
Great reply Shane. I see Tony’s response below and went to web site only to find he(they) believed dinars ours were in the Ark too.. But reading on they claim only two dianisours were in the ark and “perhaps” ( they seem to like using that word a lot) that they were small adolescent ones as big as a small horse. They mention that ” perhaps” there were over 50 kind of dianisours but just line dog varites a dog is a dog is a dog so they only needed two.. And not two of the 50 kind. So if a dog is a dog is a dog and there are so many breeds… How do you get the different types of breeds…. From just two dogs… ( evolution). And if it was just Noah and his family… That survived… We’re did Chinese people come from ? They must stowed away on the Ark
Scott,
What I’ve described with dog breeding are observable changes within a created kind [eg, speciation, mutation, natural selection… sometimes referred to as micro-evolution]. What creationists dispute is unobservable macro-evolution [eg, microbes-to-man evolution]. Your textbooks conflate the two terms as “change over time” but this is purposely misleading.
As to where Chinese people came from: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
If you are right I still have nothing to lose, but if we are right and Jesus is the way You will lose everything. Praying that you discover the truth!
satan blinds many. he puts enmity in their hearts to keep them from the truth. he provides the lies and the false rational with which they are presented as argument.
Silly, considering how powerless he really is when confronted with a single command, backed by our saviour, Jesus Christ.
James 4:7 gives us that promise, and I’ve seen it work time after time.
So, we pray for the lost and guide who we can. The Spirit takes care of the rest of the job, yes?
🙂
Genesis 6:19 suggests that there were more people saved in the Ark!! Go read and see for yourself because the next 2 verses covered all animals…so that Verse 19 refers to people, humans only.. of every sort = all colors of people were saved and they chipped in tending all animals in the Ark for 13 months, feeding and picking up after their businesses, etc…8 people won’t do the mammoth job! I believe at least 50 couples were saved = 108 people in the Ark!
Brian Malzkuhn,
Genesis 6:19 is a summary statement of the next two verses, which flesh out more specifically what is meant in verse 19. There is no reason or warrant to apply this verse to humans, because Genesis 7:7 notes that only Noah, his wive, his sons and his sons wives went aboard the Ark. Genesis 6:10 and other passages make it clear that Noah only had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth. As a final nail in the coffin of this erroneous argument, 1 Peter 3:20 affirms that only “eight souls” were saved from the Flood.
As for the workload, there are many self-feeding mechanisms and even methods for easier waste removal that could have been utilized. For example, consider the following article: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/caring-for-the-animals
The bottom line is that we shouldn’t let our preconceived ideas dictate Scripture; rather we should accept what Scripture says and mold our thinking accordingly.
Regards and God bless,
Tony
The fact that anyone or anything can be so blinded by “faith” to believe the fairy tales contained in the bible is exactly the problem with our world as a whole. It is the main issue holding us back from being the of loving prosperous species that we could be. Those stories are designed to explain the complex science and unexplainable acts of our beginnings to children yet we have adults preaching them as fact. It is very sad and I wait till the day we will all be freed or “saved” from the devicive evil religion
This “divisive, evil” religion gave the world hospitals. Most of te modern scientific disciplines were founded by bible-affirming scientists. If you believe that religion is holding us back from being good, how do you explain the Hitler and Mother Teresa? You see, your assertion [a regurgitation of John Lennon’s “Imagine no religion”] doesn’t work in the face of reality. But out of curiosity, what is your standard for right and wrong?
Another verse supports Genesis 6:19…Genesis 7:9- There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. Plus, Genesis 7:15- And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. :16- And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in. Genesis 8:17- Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
I can see male and female of every race were saved as well!
But since the Bible says elsewhere that only 8 people were saved aboard the Ark, your are adding to Scripture instead of accepting what it says.
By virtue of consanguinity, all offspring produced by Noah’s sons are in fact related and following the account that there were no other human survivors after the great flood, inbreeding seem to be inevitable. Believer or otherwise, this seems to be very obvious. In all fairness, the previous charge wasn’t ludicrous at all.
Creationists believe that Adam and Eve were genetically perfect; when sin entered into the world, creation was cursed and mutations began, but mutations take a while to accumulate. Admittedly there was a genetic bottleneck at the Flood which the Bible indirectly acknowledges in the dramatically reduced lifespans of persons pre and post Flood. As the Law did not forbid intermarrriage amongst close relatives until the time of Moses, we suggest that mutations had not reached the harmful levels which would make inbreeding a problem [morally or genetically] until about that time.
I thought that god did away with the second earth age because of the fallen angels coming down and having sex with the humans and creating giants and such
Harold,
You seriously need to throw your “Observations of Moses” in the garbage and find a church where they actually teach the Bible.
I thought sin entered the world when Adam ate the forbidden apple, which was prior to them conceiving their first child? Wouldn’t creation have been cursed from the beginning?
Jenn-O,
Creation was originally perfect or “very good” as God put it. When sin entered the world, creation was indeed cursed but it would have taken quite some time for a lot of genetic mutations to enter the originally perfect human genome.
Hope that answers your question. ;]
-Tony
You said that God eventually banned incest because he could see that it was leading to birth defects. Why didn’t he ban it from the start as being omnipotent he would obviously know what was going to happen !
Incest is a loaded term. To clarify, sex outside of marriage has always been forbidden. We are talking about marrying a close relative here. And why would God ban something from the start that wasn’t going to be bad for humanity for about 3000 years or so, especially when it was necessary at the start to make humanity viable as a species? If the Bible is true and we started with 2 genetically perfect human beings, give me one good reason why God would make such a ban?
Its not a easy concept knowing you walk through a door ” of the ark” to save your life. When this world is laughing even when its raining, until some one gets hurt then reality sets in. There’s another ark in sorts, but this time its Him that’s the door, The son of God, Is our savior. Did you know on top of the great divide in Colorado there are seashells ! Hmmm made me as a child think these story’s are real!
i use to think there were more people on the ark myself but i don’t think that anymore because 1peter made it very clear to me Thank you father for the word
it says noah and his famly and two of every flesh,that would include all races.
All people groups were preserved in the genetic potential Noah and his family, but “two of every flesh” refers to the animals only, Harold. Look at the context.
Just trying to understand Genisis. Tony this will be a series of questions and the first is what was the relationship between Cain and Able? Please answer and i promise it will get more interesting.
No, you’re just trying to promote your fraudent “Observations of Moses,” as usual.
Tony,some people refuse to be educated.
You’re living proof of that truth, sir. I’ve investigated your claims. You’re promoting a fraud. God home.
Were there other people than Noah’s family in the ark ???
No. According to the Bible, only Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives were aboard the Ark.
how did we get Chinese people,black people,Japanese people,german people,french people,british people etc etc etc from Noah his wife and 3 sons and their wives???
This is actually a common question, answered on a different post on this very site: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
The bible also says two of every flesh. That’s human flesh. He wasn’t talking about animals. He was talking about all the races that was created on the sixth day and the seventh day.
Harold Walker,
You are taking the Scriptures out of context, you false teacher. How can you escape the damnation of hell?
You poor ignorant man.
Ignorant? Harold, you are unwise not knowing the Scriptures, for Peter declares that “only eight souls” were saved aboard the Ark [1 Peter 3:20]. Unless you are calling Peter a liar, your argument has been refuted by the Full Context of Scripture
THE BIBLE SAYS THAT 8 SOULS WERE SAVED.NOT THAT ONLY 8 PEOPLE LIVED.8 SOULS WERE SAVED,THAT MEANS JUST WHAT IT SAYS. THEY WERE SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD.THERE SOULS WAS SAVED, NOAH AND HIS FAMILY FOUND GRACE IN GODS EYES.JUST LIKE WE FIND GRACE THROUGH OR LORD JESUS CHRIST TO DAY. NOT BY OR WORKS AND KEEPING GODS COMMANMENTS AS NOAH DID. BUT THROUGH GRACE.AND IF WE LOVE GOD ALSO WE WILL KEEP HIS COMAMMENTS. BECAUSE OF WHAT ARE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THE SACRFICE HE MADE FOR US. TO BELEVE UPON HIM AND YE SHALL BE SAVED.I SEE SATIN’S WORK ALL OVER THIS PAGE.YOU ARE FIGHTING OVER THINGS THAT DOES NO MATTER.PEOPLE GETTING ANGERY AGAINST EACH OTHER TALKING ABOUT GODS WORD.PEOPLE TUNING AGAINST EACH OTHER.WOULD GOD BE HAPPY WITH YOU? YOU ARE SUPOSED TO BE CHRISTIANS TO LOVE ONE ANOHER. BUT I DON’T SEE MUCH LOVE HERE.THINK ABOUT THAT .
j par,
First of all, why are you “shouting” [all CAPS]? Calm down.
Secondly, I would respectfully submit that just because I disagree with you does not mean that I am not showing Christian love. Our Lord disagreed with many, especially Pharisees, but He always showed love.
Thirdly, I would remind you that ALL Scripture is profitable. Speaking of which, here’s what the Scripture actually says.
The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:20 that “when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.” This fact is repeated in 2 Peter 2:5, which says, that God “did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly.” Now if you compare this to the Genesis passage you find that according to Genesis 7:7 Noah, his sons [Shem, Ham & Japheth] and their wives entered the Ark. That’s eight people total. Genesis 7:21-23 is emphatic that no one else survived:
“And all flesh died that moved on the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was on the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
What Biblical evidence would you provide that anyone else survived?
Regards,
Tony
were did my comments go.scared of what i said was the truth.
jp.
This site is moderated. If it were not, folks would be subjected to rants, spam and abusive posts needlessly. Be civil. I don’t owe you a soapbox.
regards,
Tony
Tony when i wrote that every thing that i put in this colum was gone !
Again, this site is moderated. Comments do not appear until approved.
TONY I AM INSULTING NO ONE, AND AS ACTING CHILDISH, THE ONLY ONE HERE ACTING CHILDISH, IS YOU ALSO THE ONLY ONE CUTTING PEOPLE DOWN IS YOU. YOU ONLY WONT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE AS YOU DO AND OTHER PEOPLES THOUGHTS ARE OKAY AS LONG AS THEY LINE UP WITH YOURS. THIS IS AMERICA FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS MY RIGHT. AS FAR AS TELLING OTHERS THEY ARE WRONG ABOUT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. MAYBE YOUR THE WRONG ONE HERE. AS FOR TELLING ME WHAT TO DO OR YOU ARE GOING TO BAN ME. GO AHEAD TONY YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS PIG ! NOW TONY THATS A INSULT !!!
Do you have a Biblical response to my points or are you only interested in venting?
Please stop. First of all the flood did not destroy the entire world only the area where sin was out of control…. Surly you must know that.. where do you think the olive branch came from.
Sam,
You do not get that idea from the Scriptures which state that the whole earth was covered with water, so where did you get it?
Sam L the whole world was covered by the flood God helped the plants grow if you don’t believe me see Genesis 9:11. God says i will never flood the EARTH again!!!!
-Just being truthful
I was at the Natural History Museum in New York City last week. I saw with my own eyes the skeleton of Lucy – an approximated 3.2 million year old human skeleton. As well as 200 million year old dinosaur fossils. I mean no disrespect here to anyone but the facts are the facts and you can not argue with them. I don’t really believe in god, I especially do not believe in religion. I believe that the universe was created by something, not necessarily someone, and we are just beginning to see the origins of the universe, and yet we may never truly understand how this all began. I know one fact, when you die, you die. Lights out. The same as before you were born. And yes that is a bit scary but it allows for us all to realize that fact and live the best lives possible here on Earth right now. Whatever your opinion and retort to this submission may be, you are entitled to that opinion. However, your thoughts on the subject are in no way superior to mine. You believe in what you want to believe and that gives you comfort. I believe in what I want to believe, and it brings me comfort as well. I am an agnostic/atheist. I live with my girlfriend, we’re in college. We have a dog. We are happy as can be. I see the good in the world and the good in people and I believe in treating people with dignity and respect. I believe the only true evil in this world comes from the clashing of people and their dogmas and their egos. Hope you enjoyed my rant.
Brotha Kyle,
You saw an ape skeleton that had been labeled as human and with an age consistent with an all-natural history of the universe.
Here’s a link for more information on Lucy: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2013/10/05/lucy-makeover
Thank you Tony, learned a lot, but was trying to figure out the names of Noah’s wife, and his sons’ wives. And yes, you did encourage me to pull out my Bible and look it up for myself, but I still don’t seem to be able to find their names.
Their names aren’t listed. The down-side of a patriarchal society is that women are rarely named in their histories. 😦
The Book of Jubilees [Lesser Genesis] is a book of pseudoepigrapha [a non-canonical book written in a biblical style and ascribed to an author who did not write it] written sometime around 160-150 BC gives the names of the wives as follows:
Wife of Noah – Emzara, daughter of Rake’el, son of Methuselah
Wife of Shem – Sedeqetelebab
Wife of Ham – Ne’elatama’uk or Na’eltama’uk
Wife of Japheth – ‘Adataneses
The Church Fathers were aware of Jubilees and some commented on the material, but it is not considered authoritative or canonical except by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
Holy cow man. The Bible does NOT say that Noah warned the people of a coming flood. There was no invitation for anyone to come aboard the Ark except Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives. And of course all the animals that he brought to the ark. But that’s it.
Man had become so evil that there wasn’t anyone righteous except Noah and his family. It grieved His heart and because of this it was God’s intent that they all die – every living thing he created – except Noah and his family and the animals.
The story you tell is what I learned in Sunday School when I was a child. But that story isn’t true. Just because Peter says Noah was a preacher of righteousness doesn’t mean he warned people about the coming flood. Heck Noah was already 500 years old when God told him to build the ark.
Reread the story beginning with Gen. 6. You’ll find what I’ve told you to be true and you’ll find no passage that suggests Noah warned people about a coming flood.
What would you say that a “preacher of righteousness” means then?
Did you ever consider that the Bible also says that the last days will be as the days of Noah. We still have preachers giving invitations to folks even if many of them will ultimately reject the message. God doesn’t change. I think that Peter’s proclamation that Noah was a preacher of righteousness means that everyone knew why he was building the Ark and that there was an opportunity to turn from their wickedness, even if they all ultimately rejected it or chose to ignore it.
So … humans decided which “Scriptures” are truly holy?
No, we simply recognized which ones were inspired of the Holy Ghost
So in 4000 years, 8 people spread to every continent (excluding Antarctica) and developed entirely different languages, cultures, alphabets, religions, skin colors, and traits. In 4000 years they went from wherever the Ark landed (I’m sorry, I’m not entirely sure where the scripture says that the Ark ends up), and expanded to the the ends of every nation and their offspring somehow were entirely unable to pass down the story of their ancestors and the “true” religion through either writing or word of mouth. So many of these offspring, entirely unable to keep the story straight, resulting in all of these different religions, who’s to say that the story of Christianity that was passed down is at all accurate?
Chris,
You’re forgetting the confusion of the languages at Babel, which does explain how the Ark/Flood accounts could have become more inaccurate the further people traveled from the source. God preserved true history through his chosen people, the Jews. If you choose not to believe it in favor of highly polemical accounts with lots of impossibilities rather than the one account which could be at all possible, that’s your business.
Life is what it is luck of the draw just like everything else! Sometimes you are lucky sometimes you aren’t! But there is no God nor Satan that causes any of it! Some people are born rich and never work a day in their life then some are born into poverty and have to struggle for everything they get
And if you’re wrong about that, there are eternal consequences.
Sorry if I got off the subject but the Bible was written by man and Noah and his Ark is a myth as well! People choose to believe in Hod to keep some kind of organizational peace in society!
Sherri,
The Bible is true and accurate and your second comment is patronizing to all adherents of any religion [ie., completely intolerant and condescending]
I was raised in the church and a strong believer! Now I am 55 years old and have traveled read and come to believe entirely different. The God I believed in was supposed to be a loving, caring, non jealous God! I had questions which no minister could ever answer for me which is if God does not put more on us than we can handle as believers why is there so many suicides of Christians?
If God is loving kind and not a jealous God why did he cast Satan into hell was that not anger and jealousy? Also what kind of God allows children even infants to go through the hell of abuse and torture and murder. Just yesterday a 4 month old baby girl whose own mother called her pedophile boyfriend over to assist in the sexual torture to her baby girl! This monster raped this baby in the vagina as well as the anus so bad it tore her insides up so bad she died! I as a human cannot bear the very thought of the pain this child suffered! Where was this God of love? God can sit on a throne in Heaven and allow this? Nope no longer a believer! We are born and we die simple as that! God never answered a prayer for me as a child or as an adult Christian I gave him my all and he gave me nothing! I do not believe!
Also how do you tell a child brother or sister of such a horrendous act on a child that the baby is fine God has him or her now and they say “Where was God when this awful thing happened to my baby brother or sister?” You can’t because there is no loving caring protecting God!
Actually, the Bible does claim that God is a jealous God. About 7 times. It’s even there in the Ten Commandments [Exodus 20:5]. Also, anger is not a sin. God gets angry several times in the Bible. The Bible says to be angry, but do not sin. Not sure how you missed that, but you may want to re-assess a few things in light of that misconception.
I testified against a pedophile in my own family who committed vile acts against an infant, so I get where you’re coming from. But you’ve forgotten that there is no love without free will. Human suffering came about precisely because men have abused their free will. It started with Adam’s sin and continues to this day. Although suffering isn’t good, God can use it to accomplish good. For example, He can use it to pull people toward salvation, build their character, and discipline them. Most importantly, the day is coming when suffering will cease and evil will be judged. That is what you forgot to include in your assessment. There’s hope through Christ.
I’m sorry you lost your way. I truly am and I understand how overwhelming such evil and suffering can feel. But God didn’t cause this suffering and He has done something about it. He sent His Son to ultimately remedy the problem and He sends Christians to offer hope, love, comfort and intervention in the world today… we don’t always fulfill our call, but it’s what we’re supposed to do.
Here is something that happened to me last evening. While watching a news broadcast on YouTube of the problems in Israel an Orthodox Jew was angry at a Zionist. I decided to learn what a Zionist was and not what I thought it “might” mean. After going through a few video’s I read the comments, and I answered one that claimed that the video was wrong and there were more people on the Ark, the Nephilim she said was in the Ark along with a pair (male and female) of each ethnic group. I replied to her that she was in error, that no only eight people were on the Ark. Well, now I have been called a kinite, which took me awhile to look up and became really angry. The bad comment that I made to her was that she was Biblically illiterate. You can imagine my surprise finding this site after such an incident. After viewing some of the comments here and those of other Biblical sites it seems there is some prophesy coming true. In Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,… I am also thinking that God has sent strong delusion here already. I got to hand it to you doing this here is a good work. I hope you reach many and can open their eyes and hearts to God. God Bless 🙂
Re: “I am also thinking that God has sent strong delusion here already.”
You may be onto something here, Phyllis.
Consider the words of 2 Peter 3:3-7:
This verse notes that scoffers will reject the promise of Christ’s return because they believe that “all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation,” an idea very much like the all-natural evolutionary model we’re taught today. It goes on to say that men are willingly ignorant that the heavens and the earth were created by the Word of God and that the world was judged with a great Flood by that same Word. Peter’s prophecy seems to confirm your suspicions that the strong delusion is already in place.
God bless ;]
The only thing I’m confused about is that I can’t wrap my mind around the thought that if you don’t accept Jesus as your savior you go to hell right? Christians are of a minority in the world today. All of the other perfectly peaceful religions are going to hell. I don’t think so. A god that would do that is no god of mine.
A god – no THE God – graciously [that means He didn’t have to] gives His only Son to pay your sin debt but you reject it for your own morality [even though it does nothing to pay your sin debt]. If that God is the Creator then He is your God whether you like His terms or not, sir. But rest assured, the Scripture notes that if you reject Him and His Son, He will reject you… so be careful what you wish for.
For the sake of argument, what is your standard of right and wrong?
Check the bible again. After God list to Noah the animals and fowl, two of each kind, God also adds two of every flesh. Meaning two if every race
Chuck,
A text without a context is a pretext for error.
In Genesis 7, we read:
“21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.”
Clearly, flesh is limited to air-breathing land animals, fowl, creeping things and man. Nowhere is race mentioned. That is not something you are deriving from a natural reading of the text. That is something you are trying to put into the text.
And that means you’re wrong, Chuck.
Can you tell me. How did all the different races of people develop?
The Bible reminds us that God has made “of one blood all nations of men” [Acts 17:26], which means that He packed all of the genetic potential for every shade from black to white into Adam and Eve. Here’s a pdf with a lot of information on that subject, Mary ;] – http://legacy-cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/assets/pdf/radio/races_booklet.pdf
See also: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
Sir, excuse me, but if you say that “The down-side of a patriarchal society is that women are rarely named in their histories.” and still that text made it to the Holy Scripture, wouldn’t you admit that other blemishes of the kind might be found in the text, if it’s really influenced by the patriarchial society and its implied bigotry? So the text isn’t perfect – because it was scribed by people with their own opinions and their own worldview (e.g. women are not as important to the story as men) – and to follow it to the letter is unwise – because you yourself say it is flawed (and it might be more flawed than we are even capable of noticing today)? And yet you say that “rather we should accept what Scripture says and mold our thinking accordingly.” Thank you in advance for your answer.
Jade,
I never stated that this was a flaw. it is simply a fact of history. You’re the one who implied “bigotry” [based on modern mores] rather than looking at it as the cultural norm of the time; you have no way of determining whether the holy men who penned the Holy Scripture did so out of misogyny [bigotry would quite a leap from your inference]. In either case, deciding that the Bible must be flawed because of what it doesn’t say would be an argument from silence, which the weakest sort of argument. The Bible says that the Scriptures never came by the will of man, but that holy men of God spoke as they were moved of the Holy Spirit. To the traditional Christian this means that God in His work of inspiration utilized the distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers whom He had chosen and prepared and, though not conferring omniscience, guaranteed true and trustworthy utterance on all matters of which the Biblical authors were moved to speak and write. Hope that helps.
To: Tony Breeden
See, they keep popping up. There must be a new “popular preacher” out there. You would not believe the horrible things said over this false doctrine. I am currently forming the opinion that there might be a “new movement” that will be based on race. And it seems that none of them want to be in the bloodline of Noah. May have something to do with the secular movie “Noah”, but this started some weeks prior. One thing is for sure…it is a very odd belief since the reason for the flood was to wipe out all of mankind, animals, and insects because every living thing had become corrupted. It just doesn’t have any logic. (I may be wrong about the insects).
The reason for the flood was not just because of sexual immorality, it had to do with breeding animals not of their kind and creating monsters, is that not so? It had become so wide spread that there was not any man or creature left that was not corrupt save Noah. This is correct is it not?
You sure have taken on a job,; doing this…I thank you for your reply to my first question. And God Bless you.
Phyllis
Phyllis,
The Bible only says that God sent the Flood in judgment because Man’s every thought was continually evil. It does not give any specifics on what those sins were, so the rest of that becomes speculation. I’m afraid I cannot give you a more definite answer to this question. The only thing I can tell you is that the Bible says that the Last Days will be as the days of Noah. People will live their lives as usual with no regard for their Creator or His will. -Regards and God bless, Tony
Dear God I pray you open the eyes of the people on this page misquoting scripture. Amen.
Where specifically?
Great blog. Thank you for posting this Tony. – Brent
Yes that is correct. But does the movie reflect that fact? I haven’t seen it yet so does it reflect 8 people like the bible tells us? Are did Hollywood go in and mess it up for dramaic affects. I hate it when someone makes a movie about story’s from the Bible and they aren’t accurate with the true! The story’s are not only true but they are much more interesting and educational if the producers and screen writers would just stick to the facts! God’s a better writer then any screen writer you have in Hollywood anyway.
Karron,
I haven’t seen the movie yet, but from what I understand Tubal-Cain manages to get aboard for a brief time, which obviously isn’t in the Bible.
thats true but since there never was a noah ark its ok to lie about a lie
It is true. The Bible has been supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ. No other source known to man can make such a claim to authority.
You should pray to have your own eyes opened, because this is a ludicrous childish story, the likes of Jack and the beanstalk, and the Wizard of Oz!
Once upon a time, everything come from nothing or maybe an unobservable, unprovable comic book multiverse. Millions of years later, life came from non-life [I know we’ve never seen it, but we have to believe that or that aliens we’ve never seen seeded us and then we’d have to explain where THEY came from so no more questions] and THEN millions of years later a frog eventually became a prince! [I know that all we see today is a dog becoming another type of dog, be it a wolf or a teacup poodle, but when you add the magical elements of time and chance and a LOT of imagination, anything is possible!]
I’m sorry, you were saying?
Yes… “God is a great writer.” However, he forgot to mention all about the oxygen masks which allowed them to breathe at the high altitudes which the ark was floating. You know, given the fact that the water covered everything, including the highest mountains!
The topography of the pre-Flood earth was dramatically different. No oxygen masks would have been needed. More on this here: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/the-flood/where-did-the-flood-waters-come-from/
I wonder what races are mutations. I say this because If only Noah’s family was on the Arc…how did we get three races? Was Noah white (Caucasion), black (Negroid), asian (Mongoloid)? These are the three races of humans. Even if his sons’ wives one of these other races, they would not really be fully of one race, but mixed race.
Mutations [genetic mistakes] would be incorrect; The races came from natural selection and speciation. More here: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
I went to a Church of England school. I was a choir boy. I sat and listened to a HUGE number of readings, rituals (weddings, christenings, funerals), scriptures and other services and think I know the bible pretty well. The comment about non believers disagreeing with the teachings of the bible due to pride is daft. It’s nothing to do with my own misunderstanding. I understand it far better than many – dare I say most. I chose to use my open minded nature (God given?) to seek the truth because I do not wish to be a puppet to inherrited belief. Both my parents (whom I love dearly) are fervent believers in Christ and have passed that same belief on to me. I respect my parents but I can honestly say that after lots of soul searching, I simply don’t agree with a lot of the Christian teachings.
The great flood is a pre-Christ parable which too many people take as true. It never happened. Geological records prove beyond any doubt that the entirety of the earth (or even the known inhabitation of the earth) was never covered wholeheartedly in water. An ark of the size required would break apart due to the stresses upon it and even modern building techniques and materials would require significant planning, industrial manpower and far longer than a lifetime to build if it were to be completed by hand by only eight people.
I won’t go into detail on other aspects of scripture, but please let’s be realistic.
None of this post is intended to contest the existence of a supreme being, only the specific creationist references.
If you accept the genetic mutations issue, surely you must accept Darwinian evolution!? It is not a “theory” in the way that most people understand the term. Science defines the word “theory” differently. It is a proven fact that we are evolving still (percentage of humans who are lactose intolerant has decreased by almost 50% recently due to evolution and gene dominance – fact).
The existance of god is not precluded by an acceptance of science, but to blindly accept the stories of Noah and his Ark as anything more than a control mechanism to enforce social adherence to accepted behaviours just makes people look silly.
Neil,
The Flood account was not taken as a parable by the author of Hebrews, Peter nor Jesus who all referenced it as if it were an actual historical account.
Folks who believe the historical veracity of Genesis have a different interpretation of the fossil record that is consistent with the Bible rather than an all-natural history of the world. In short, we believe that most [but not all] of fossil bearing strata are a result of the Flood and are thus a record of God’s judgment.
Many studies have been conducted which prove the ark’s design and construction would have been sufficient. I refer you to the following webpage for more information: http://worldwideflood.org/objections/too_big_for_timber.htm
You should also be aware that creationists accept observable micro-evolution [changes within created kinds , eg., natural selection, mutation, speciation, etc] but deny unobservable macro-evolution [microbes-to-man evolution] because the latter is based on pure naturalism [which would also deny the existence of God, the immortality of the soul, the Resurrection of Christ, Biblical miracles, and ANY and ALL other supernatural claims of the Bible]. You may think believing the Word of God makes people look silly when men who refuse to even consider the supernatural dispute it, but at least my worldview is consistent.
How were people saved before Jesus came along? The God that Christians believe in is so cruel as to send billions of non-Christians to hell just because they DO NOT accept Jesus as their savior? Bible stories are nothing more than bed time stories for children who do not have the capabilities of discerning between truth and fiction. I choose not to believe in your cruel God and fully prepared to pay the consequences of my actions!
The Bible states that before Christ we were saved by observance of the Law. Those without the Law were still held accountable because God had written the Law on their hearts [Romans 2]. We call that a conscience. The Bible states that God winked at our ignorance in times past but now commands all men to repent through Christ [acts 17:30]. He also promises that God is not very far from any of us and that we will find Him if we seek Him with our whole heart. However, Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven and earth whereby men MUST be saved. It is not cruel to punish men for their sins; it is just and righteous. It is grace that allows men to come to Christ for salvation that none of us could ever earn on our own merits. If you COULD pay the consequences of your own actions, it would NOT have taken the DEATH of God’s Son to remedy the situation. It is utter arrogance that allows you to make such a statement without measuring the full cost. The wages [deserved earnings] of sin is death and this is consequence of your actions. This “cruel” God offers you the gift of eternal life while you say, ‘no, thanks, your Son’s death was completely unnecessary. I’m good all on my own.’ Blind guide, how will you escape the damnation of hell?
So, just came back from watching Noah. Yep… A Hollywood film. Not gonna judge it on it’s biblical accuracy as I could not say. But it did bring me to this site after an interest in reminding myself of the basic tale. But… all that has happened is a reaffirming of my fear of religion. Tony, I am sure you are a good man and I have so much respect for your having a strong faith and set of beliefs but honestly, can you not allow yourself the same respect for others? I know this page is moderated and as such this comment may well never see the light of day but please just take half a step back and look at the typical behaviours of the non religious. For example, If I choose not to believe in Jesus Christ. Well I’m damned for eternity. I choose not to believe in modern scientific theory (may I stress the word theory) then… Oh hang on… Nothing. Nothing happens to me. Choose to believe in a man whose existence cannot be physically prooved and live a good life, never intending to hurt, offend or otherwise do anything you would not want done to you then I’m sorted for all eternity. Live a good life, never intending to hurt, offend or otherwise do anything you would not want done to you but choose to listen to alternative ideas and theories as to how we got here and how the universe might work and I’m screwed. Seems a little unfair don’t you think?
I don’t make the rules. I just relate them. But on what objective basis do you call it unfair? What is your standard for right and wrong?
I was dragged to the Noah movie. Like I figured, anything coming from Hollywood these days is rife with current day left-wing extremist nonsense. It’s a bland sci-fi/fantasy approach to the story of Noah. The worst part is they almost turn Noah into a self righteous, abortionist for the environmentalist movement. The movie is not a spectacle and the acting is sub par. I would have preferred Captain America. The silver lining in all this is that perhaps some people will open their Bible up again to fact check the story and carry on into the rest of the good book. Azon and the rest of the troubled souls in this comment list need to remember that Jesus, whether you believe in his divinity or not, just wanted us to first respect and love each other and if you wanted more to truly believe in his inspiration and divine message—the truth.
Just watched the Movie…..!!!…Where in the bible does it talk about giant rock creatures that look like they came straight out of Lord of the Rings.
Take away all pre-existing knowledge of the bible fairy tales .And you have a good action story.
Which was confirmed by my friends daughter who knows nothing about the bible tales and she enjoyed it as much as she enjoyed “The Hobbit”…..
I saw the movie as well. I was disappointed that it deviated so far from the bible and really was it’s own story with little of the message of Noah coming through. The thing is, the story of Noah is quite compelling on it’s own, and I think could make a very good movie without all the deviations.
I’ve also read through the posts made here. I see a lot of frustration and anger in many of the posts. This is not surprising to me, but it does sadden me a bit. I just hope that each person no matter what they believe continues to explore the existence of God and the works and words of Jesus. Even if you don’t believe in any of the bible, believing it to be fairy tales for the weak minded, I hope you still continue to ask questions and continue to try and look at yourself honestly. I’m so imperfect myself and find myself being dishonest not only to others but to myself as well. But I do try and clearly see myself. For me the words of Jesus touch me deeply and I find so much truth to what he was/is saying. I read many other books as well, Buddhist and Hindu in particular and think there is good there also, so please don’t just dismiss me because I happen to try and follow Jesus. If you can’t accept the Bible as a whole, try reading some of the new testament and really explore the actual words Jesus spoke, rather than listen to the interpretations others have placed upon those words. I can find no fault in Jesus… and my friends both atheist and Christian, that is so very rare.
I have a few questions. What evidence do you have that sin creates genetic abnormalities? I’ve seen positions taken that suggest such a thing.
What justification was there to kill everyone on the planet but 8 people? I’m specifically (only) interested in what the justification was for killing babies, children and the like.
Do you have any issues following a god that would do that? Does any part of you think killing everyone is wrong?
I’ve followed the links to find out what sort of evidence exists to support a worldwide catastrophic flood and I don’t see anything substantive. With an event of that magnitude there should be unequivocal and overwhelming evidence.
The evidence is the very rock layers you’ve been taught to think of as being laid down over long ages. And flood legends worldwide.
The Bible says that the Earth was filled with violence and the heart of every man was continually evil. That does not sound like a pre-Flood world where innocence existed. Since the Bible is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ, I have no problem taking it at its word on this point, so your objection about alleged innocents is a straw man argument. I’ve seen the harm that men do in a world where our thoughts aren’t continually evil. I tend to think that if God sent a Flood to wipe the slate clean, it must’ve been far worse than even I can imagine.
For all you good people just remember the first sin .Adam blamed Eve ,Eve blamed the serpent and the serpent did not have a leg to stand on ! Take good care all .
Ha!
Tony I see your efforts on every comment and every reply you have giving, I have but one question: The Book of Jasher cites Noah married Naamah, daughter of Enoch. They brought forth Japheth and Shem. Later, Noah married Namah, daughter of Lamech, and they brought forth Ham. It also states that Namah died in the later years as the Ark was being built, and that she taught her son Ham from the scribes of her fore-fathers Cain, because of this in other scholars point out that Nimrod also read the scrolls of Cain, and became this great hunter and ruler against God. Is this a fact? I have seen it in many other books pointing this out, I only ask because I am studying with a profound base on the descendants of Ham, particular on Canaan and his son Sidon “Zidon”. Is there any websites you can refer me to, and thanks.
There are several books claiming to be the Biblical Book of Jasher, so we cannot hold any one of them as authoritative as yet. Having said that, if you’d like an exhaustive – and I do mean exhaustive! – resource on the Table of Nations, I recommend Bodie Hodge’s Tower of Babel. Incidentally, on pp. 181-82 of that book he places Canaan’s descendants in Israel/Palestine, Syria and beyond, while Sidon occupies much the same area and perhaps some Mediterranean islands
Good going Tony, you amaze me at how many times you answer the same question over, and over. Yoy have my vote for the most patient person of the year!
Thank you for the encouragement ;]
I was at the fine arts museum in Houston. I saw a prehistoric african depiction of an ark. I dont recall the tribal name, but their belief was that the world had started (or was created) by 8 souls that were sent in an ark. The model/sculpture was 3′ long by 1′ tall and wide. It was wooden and had 4 men and 4 women carved into the sides. I am a christian. I just thought it was really interesting for anothers culture to begin their beliefs on such a similiar story to noah and the ark. I was only led to this site because I didnt remember how many sons Noah had. After all the comments above, I just wanted to add some food for thought for all believers, non-believers, idealist, naturalists, creationist, & even the trekies. ♡
Flood accounts are common the world over. ;]
Tony, What is your response to those who are saying that the Jesus from a Virgin story was duplicated in other ways numerous times before the time of Jesus? Such as Horus and others? Have you ever looked into that? Just curious.
I have and I will say this. The Bible has been supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ. It says that Satan is a liar and find him fully capable of perverting ancient myths and legends to obfuscate the miracle of the Virgin Birth. It was prophesied after all and the Devil is a clever fellow. Yet again, since the Bible has such authority demonstrated in the evidences mentioned, I can be confident that the Virgin Birth was a true event that occurred independently of those legends.
It’s appalling at all the non believers who are so quick to tear down someone elses faith and belief just bc you lack some. Regardless of believing there is a thing called human decency, freedom of belief and moral dignity. God Bless All of You!!! If your offended by that, don’t worry I pray for my enemies everyday..
In Islam, there was no number mentioned in the Quran, but the Muslim scholars agrees they were 80, or 76, or Noah and his family as mentioned in genesis. But those are just theories, no number was mentioned in the Quran
Um, look, the Bible is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ. The Koran can claim no such authority. I’m sticking with the Bible
Just happened to come across this site. and I have to say I am very impressed by the knowledge of the bible by tony. I am an atheist, but have great curiosity of religion. I can not really make any major comments of the bible for I have not read it completely. so to say I,m right as an atheist in my beliefs, would be ignorant by definition. I can not say with complete certainty that Im wrong and your right, and vice versa. I can say this… I wish I had the faith of my convictions as I see many on this site do. I suppose I could go to a church and ask to be blessed and take jesus as my savior, but I know it would not ‘save’ me, because such faith and belief is not truly in my heart. so I go through this my life, and try and be the best person I can be,and if I never accept jesus as my savior before I die, I guess either I,ll burn in hell or nothing may come of it. I don’t know. I suppose I hope someday I will find the kind of faith many of you have. I just know it has to be a real faith that comes from within me. so ill ask of all you believers to pray that I find that faith someday, before the bible says its too late for me. till then ill still strive to be the best person I can be.
Thank you for the kind words, Darla.
Here’s hoping we meet at the journey’s end ;]
Tony,
I apologize for my intrusion, however you seem to be a man of great faith, I am not, but I have a question for you. I have read the bible and felt as though I understood all I was reading. What I have not found in my reading is this. After Cain killed Abel he left the garden and many years later he returned and had taken a wife while he was gone. Where did she come from if the only persons on earth were from the place he left?
Gary,
Don’t feel bad. This is actually one of the most asked questions.
Answers in Genesis has fielded this question more than perhaps any other question, so I refer you to them: https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/cains-wife-who-was-she/
Regards,
Tony, DefGen.org
Tony I have thumbed thought these comments, and I have to say thank you for always having a timely and accurate response. Sometimes people don’t realize how rude and disrespectful they are. They just repeat things they heard without research, so forgiveness is very necessary. Again thank you for letting God use you in this manner.
I haven’t read all the questions and answers on here, I’m a single father, and was curious to the eight on Noah’s Ark, after watching the movie Noah with my 8 year old. I haven’t been to church in a while, but I kind of remember a little but, Who were the wives of Ham and Japeth who went aboard the Ark? The movie did not show that or could not show that…Could the Step Daughter carrying the babies account for 2 ? I’m also kind of confused on the curse of Ham on his 4th seed(what exactly does the curse do to Caanan and his descendants). From my understanding Noah was a single father of 3 or 4 (If you include the step daughter), due to his wife dying before the Ark was built. He took on a new wife Naamah who was a descendant of Cain. Who(Naamah) later had sex with his son(Ham) as Noah lay drunk and awake, Noah cursed that child Naamah produced, due to incest or……..? There is a lot of confusion for me on why God let this happen, I know God doesn’t make mistakes, but could it be due to a lot of innocent people being drowned during the flood, that God planned a new world with all that was in the old world in hopes to give the innocent or believers in him(or Jesus) a chance to live when this New world ends. If so would this be considered a mistake? Could there be fallen angels in this world now? Did Giants actually walk among us back in the days of Noah…? Usually when a woman is mentioned in the bible they have great importance, I don’t know if Hams wife is mentioned in the Bible as the mother of his other 3 kids, who is she? This is why I’m thinking incest among the family(Ham and Naamah) and the curse of Canaan. This Noah’s Ark has me opening up my Bible again after years, so sorry for all the questions….Time for me to head back to church with my son, He has a lot of questions I can’t answer.
Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. I answer questions on the site infrequently due to a rather busy schedule.
In any case, the Bible expressly says that there were 8 people aboard the Ark. While not all of them are named (i.e., the women), they are all identified; specifically, we know that Noah and his wife, Shem and his wife, Ham and his wife, and Japheth and his wife made the trip. Given these details, any theory involving incest is unnecessary.
The movie creates confusion because the step-daughter was a bit of poetic license by the filmmakers. There was no step-daughter in the Bible, neither was Noah a genocidal madman.
The Bible says that God saw that the thought of man was continually evil and that the Earth was filled with violence. There were no innocents at the time if the Flood. See this article on this site for more details on why the Flood happened: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/before-the-flood/why-did-the-flood-happen/
As for the curse upon Canaan, the Bible says that Ham exposed Noah to shame while his father was drunk. According the Joseph us and the Dead Sea Scrolls, Noah cursed Canaan to servitude because Ham was already blessed of God and therefore could not be cursed himself. The exact nature of Ham’s shameful actions is debated so I must reserve discussion of that for a later post.
Regards,
Tony, DefGen.org
Brother Tony, some of your answers are judgemental, it is better to leave the Judging to God, who does a much better Job than any human can, and here is another one of my “Pet-Peeves” all too often I hear people say, including many saved Christians, quote : “God bless”, and that by itself is wrong. I always say “May God Bless you.” do you know the difference. The former is a command to God and no one commands God. the latter greeting gives God the choice whom He wants to bless. I am at present very deeply involved in writing a very serious book, non fiction, religious book, which should appear on the market in about 6-8 months. Title: ONE GOD FOR ALL, as it deals with the Holy Catholic Church the bride of Christ, catholic meaning from the Greek — Universal., and it is being edited by five Reverend equivalents of the five major religions. Greetings and may God bless you and shine His Light on your daily path, I am .
Rev. Dr. Karl Maydell, esq. . P/S: God created man in His image. I know the image and what it is,, the question here for you: Do you, brother.?
Karl,
Your entire comment was condescending, but you wish to take me to task for being judgmental?? Make up your mind, sir.
-Tony, DefGen.org
maybe you and the pope should shore up the catholic church before you start claiming people are judgmental karl. that is the most deceiving religion in the world, bar none. i won’t spend the time that i could telling you all the sinful beliefs that catholics believe that are not of God. anyone who believes that Jesus Christ lives in the catholic church, is deluded and has a reprobate mind. i’ve seen many people come out of the catholic church to become born-again, and that shows me that God does not reside there, if He did why would he call people out of it? i will give you one of those beliefs and it is blasphemous. they want to make mary co-savior with Jesus. only satan would try to pull that off. Jesus said the Father is Spirit and to worship the Father is to worship in Spirit and truth. the true image of God and man is the Spirit.
I have not viewed the movie Noah. However I assume Noah and family were all depicted as being
white.Here we have a problem,Adam and Eve were created perfect (a complete set of genes) as white skin is a genetic mistake (loss of genetic information) then they would have been black,as would Noah and family needing a near as complete set of genes as possible in order to repopulate the earth.All black peoples can produce white children ( loss of genetic information) but white couples can not produce Black children as they can not pass on genes they no longer have. Most races are becoming lighter as time goes by.The original Pharaohs were black look at an Egyptian today. Something to think about?
Actually in all likelihood, they were middle hued: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
I’m a country boy from Louisiana and I no matter what I’m gonna keep my faith like a child. I need Jesus. Like it or not.
What’s not to like? Jesus is awesome! ;]
I am a bit of a strange breed – a Christian scientist. Due to my split mentality I am often caught in the crossfire in these discussion groups… Please have mercy! 😉
I saw the “Noah” movie for the first time last night & thought it was absolutely brilliant. The movie made me think about the responsibilities Noah had & the family dramas that might have ensued from being stuck together for that long on a boat. I especially loved the Watchers & the scene about creation. I have always believed that science & creation is very tightly interwoven.
It made me think about how mankind tends to run in circles: we destroy > we get saved > we live in gratitude > we become selfish > we destroy. I think the message is so universal – this movie is exactly the right way to reach people who have never heard this amazing story.
We as Christians & Atheists should be careful to miss the message by being caught up in the detail. The Bible is not a scientific handbook and was never written for that purpose.
Peace & Rainbows!
Thanks for your thoughts on the Noah movie. For the record, creationists do not claim that the Bible is a science textbook; rather we view it as a history book that is true in all it records, including when it touches upon science.
Tony, DefGen.org
this is true. I too believe that Jesus is the only door to heaven, only way to get saved from sins. I believe and want to be saved too.. Amen!
I’m not a learned professional, nor am I without faith in God. I’m just a child, a child of God but think of this. God choose to clear the planet of shall we term them as undesirables. People, fellow humans that choose not to have faith in God? How is it then as stated that the world as then, overpopulated and allegedly knowledgeable in religious beliefs should have only 8 people who believed in God. God gave everyone the freedom to choose whether they believe or not. They’re choice. So has the freedom of choice to believe or have faith been removed at some time. Why, was there a mistake? Is that why it was written later, Thou shalt not kill. but hang on, we kill not only each other and have done since the caveman times and kill animals for food too. Does it all just boil down to interpretation of what was written all those years ago? Why do we believe in the written word as the truth when God gave us inquiring minds that allows us to create and solve unknown findings and yet if any of those unknown findings cross the path of those written works its claimed as false. If the written words are the truth and only truth, why are we humans fighting each other, why are people suffering and why can’t we have peace?
Because God values free will. The sort of God the Bible describes would be worshipped by everyone if the evidence were undeniable. We admire a man for being wise or powerful. What would we do in the undeniable presence of One who is omnipotent and omnisciently all-wise? So He has given us, as Blaise Pascal, too little evidence to be sure but too much to ignore. Scripture promises that we will find Him, though He’s never far from us, if we seek Him with our whole heart. Of course, real free will comes with the real choice to reject Him and the conscience He gave us, both as a clue to the existence of a Moral Law Giver and to optimally live our lives. Does that help?
Why can’t religious people ever even consider the possibility they might be wrong and that their view of the world is not necessarily the right one, even if there were such a thing? It’s belief and personal interpretation, it’s not fact. There is always room for consideration.
I also find it quite absurd, intolerant, abusive but mostly ignorant when people tell me I’m going to hell just because I don’t believe in Christ. Being Christian, or whatever, does not make somebody a good person, neither does it make me a bad one if I’m not. Which bring me to the point that if God condemns me to Hell because I didn’t believe in him to begin with, but was a good person non the less, than there is something very wrong with your God, and I for one would not like to be a part of his creation, as that basically says that of the whole human race the vast majority is condemned to hell just because they had the fortune/misfortune to be born in Japan, Tibet or wherever else.
I’ve always found it mildly interesting that people usually never can give a straight answer whether they believe in “a” God, as in there is a God out there, or “the” God, as in there is only one true God and it’s *insert appropriate faith*. I can totally respect the later. I am open to the possibility of a God out there. Don’t find it particularity likely, nor of any particular importance to me on the whole, as I don’t need the threat of eternal damnation to make me the man I am, but there it is.
However, if it’s the former I consider said person to be very narrow minded.
What makes Christianity any more valid than any other religion, monotheistic or polytheistic? Every single religion in the world was based on or copied some other religion, same goes for Christianity.
Lastly, I have an enormous problem with religions and religious establishments on the whole. They’ve done far more damage than good. Believing in God is fine, but shoving down your beliefs down someones throat is far from it.For nothing has there been more blood been shed than in the name of various Gods. And don’t even get me started on churches.
I am not a Christian, nor of any other religion, but I can safely say that I’m a far better man than 95% of the priests where I live. If that still means I might be going to hell, than I say down with your religion.
Your beef is between you and God. The Bible is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ. The supernatural exists. Yes, Christians have caused harm, but that’s not the question you should be asking. You should be asking whether it’s true. All of the runny-middled, burnt-edged, eggshell-ridden omelettes in the world do not invalidate the recipe for the perfect omelet. It just shows us why it’s important to follow the directions given in the Cookbook.
I really find no definitive answer in the following link you provided regarding here all the races came from…
It just gives a lot of vague comments and nothing that addresses the question directly. If Noah & his family were the only people on this “ark” then how did the world get filled with so many different races?
Please explain, in detail, without pointing towed that link because that link is evidence of nothing
https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
That link is on THIS site. Did you even bother reading it?
If Noah and his family the only survivors why are there so many languages.
Interestingly enough, the next point of history in the Bible is the Tower of Babel where God confused the languages, making many languages out of one universal language.
The Bible does not say that Noah warned anyone. It doesn’t say that people ignored him. It doesn’t say that the door was open to anyone who wanted to get on the boat. It says that God told Noah He would destroy every living thing except the 8 people He named and the animals He instructed Noah to bring on board. But you’re right about Jesus. 🙂
Chrissy,
My evangelistic comments are related to Peter’s description of Noah as a “preacher of righteousness.”
-Tony
‘ello!
I’m reading the Bible chronologically (http://www.esv.org/assets/pdfs/rp.chronological.pdf) beginning with Genesis 1 – 11, then Job 1 – 5. (I’m assuming the reading plan is accurate.) Job’s three friends don’t seem to be Noah’s descendants. Eliphaz is a Temanite, Bildad a Shuhite, and Zophar a Naamathite. The names of these tribes don’t resemble the names of nations descended from Noah (Gen. 10) which leaves me hungry for some Bible history. I’m curious to know where Job’s friends came from.
I appreciate your insight. Thanks
— Abby
Great question, Abby!
Unfortunately, the Table of Nations doesn’t mention them, so we must assume they’re covered under “other sons and daughters” [cp. Genesis 11:11, 13, 14, 17]. Of course, all of these occurrences are in the line of Shem, but let me double-check against Josephus’ records.
In the meantime, if you’re truly hungry for an exhaustive albeit fascinating look at the Table of Nations, consider buying Bodie Hodge’s Tower of Babel. http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Babel-Bodie-Hodge/dp/0890517150/
Regards,
Tony Breeden
Hi im from England .I watched the film Noah on Sky at Christmas .Well it was more of a fantasy. Noah was portrayed as a bad man so it was nothing like Iwanted to see .My daughter died of cancer in July and I prayed so much for Jesus to save her yet I know that through Jesus I always have found the comfort .
Janet,
I completely agree with you concerning Aronofsky’s Noah film.
My condolences concerning your daughter.
Peace to you,
Tony Breeden
DefGen.org
To Puff Daddy: what a amazing, wonderful, and powerful testimony to the saving grace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Am blessed with this teaching may God bless u all
Yes we look for our savior before the door close
I am posting a comment after two years but I think it deserves. One is suppose to follow what he is suppose to follow. I can see people not only commenting but giving a judgement. Well I doubt u have read the bible. God has never given the right for is to decide who is right or wrong. It’s for him. So stop passing ur judgements. If I consider genesis..from Adams birth time till noah and all their children, total population shud not be more than few hundreds at time of Noah. Thoug it doesn’t state how many died.we create an assumption several lakhs. Including Adam until Noah none of them had more than 7 kids..n some one asked right question where did diffrence in origin happen..negroes Chinese Asians European all r so different. I am a doctor so I can tell u the difference in origin cannot be by genetical disorder, more importantly if bible, Quran n Greta n all religious books n preachings if u actually have read them. N please don’t comment if u haven’t…talks about earth being square and not circle. I wonder why god created the earth ti b round but call it flat
It is you who have not apparently read the Bible, sir.
No one said that the origins of Earth’s ethnicities was a genetic disorder: Where Did All the Races Come From?
Furthermore, the Bible never said the Earth was flat: Does the Bible Really teach a Flat Earth?
another bible reference which is d answer to d question, how many peoples survived d flood ~ Gen 8:16
You stated at some point in the comments section (paraphrasing) that the problem with evolutionists is that we believe in the everything being created from nothing.
Yet you believe that God created the universe and all that we see and dont see.
Since our problem is that we believe that everything was created from nothing. How can you explain God being created. Since EVERYTHING has to have a creator. Who/What created God? Something cant just exist out of thin air. A God that didnt exist cannot spontaneously exist and a God that exist has to be created by something.
I’m afraid you’ve missed the point. It is not inconsistent that everything was created from nothing at the volition of an eternal deity [and even Huxley conceded that this point was reasonable for all his agnosticism]; it is however very inconsistent for the evolutionists to affirm that everything has come to be by all-natural processes consistent with those we observe in the present but no one has ever seen anything [much less everything] come from nothing, life come from nonlife or one kind of animal turn into a completely different ind of animal [in other words a dog remains a dog and recognizably so, be it a wolf or an English bulldog]
furthermore, we should clarify that everything which has a beginning requires a cause, but an eternal being requires nothing of the sort; having no beginning or end, such a being is exempt from the laws of cause and effect. In any case, there cannot be an infinite regress of causation meaning there must be an ultimate First Cause; pure naturalism cannot provide such a First cause, relying rather on a shell game of infinite universes [when our observable sample size of universes remains exactly one].
Btw, you’re entire argument rested on tu quoque [the “oh yeah? well you too” fallacy] which hopes to hide an argument’s error in finger pointing. As I demonstrated teh charge of tu quoque is unwarranted because you are assuming natural processes as a cause for a supernatural, eternal deity who is not bound by such space-time constraints as cause and effect [which require some sort of temporal boundary to be valid]
Hello Tony, in all the depictions of Jesus that I have seen, he is a tall Caucasian man. Joseph and everyone else would have been much shorter, dark skinned with dark curly hair. Can you explain why his extremely strange physical appearance is not commented on?
Peter the OT,
It is commented on. Christian artists like myself lament this fact all the time.
The trouble is that the Caucasian Jesus has been heavily imprinted on our cultural [i.e., this image is what people think of when they think of what Jesus looks like] so most artists just portray him according to cultural expectations. Frankly, thisis why Naoh’s Ark keeps getting rendered in bathtub toy dimensions rather than as the Bible records. In both cases, it will take several generations of dedicated artists to correct the cultural misapprehension of art history.
Thanks for your answer Tony. I was thinking about comments in the bible. Do you agree with me then that Jesus would have looked very much like his fellow countrymen? I.e short, olive skinned with curly black hair. More like the black Jesus in Madonnas video than the usual Caucasian image?
He would’ve looked like a typical Mediterranean Jew, so yes.
i ve been reading some of this comments,and i just dont get it why do you people who choose not to believe insist on making comments?is it that you re trying to find your way to God,but having hard time getting there due to your logic?logic of a man canot understand god if He Himself does not want to.who wants to believe he shall find his evidence,who does not want to believe,well thats his free will and his choice.i digress,point is if you cant or wont believe why mess in our believes?just let us live in our blisfull ignorance
Because there is a law of the excluded middle, Every disbelief is the complementary choice of choosing to believe something else. In this case, you have chosen a standard of evidence that causes you to disbelieve anything that does not adhere to it. I’m curious to know what that standard of belief is?
This is NOT an open forum. It’s a ministry website dedicated to giving answers for one position. Comments are moderated, mostly because we have folks who get on this site who are either abusive, who’ve obviously not not bothered to read any of the information on this site before posting, and/or who post way off topic. These arguments do stand up to scrutiny for those who haven’t ruled out the supernatural a priori.
It may or may not be true that most non believers were formerly religious, but it is always the acceptance of pure naturalism which causes them to disbelieve the validity of supernatural revelation. Logic and empirical testing complement supernatural revelation, but the latter may be likened to eyewitness testimony that corrects the conclusions we might come to if we were lacking that eyewitness account.
The Bible has proven to be historically, archaeologically and supernaturally accurate; the evidence of fulfilled Bible prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ authenticate its claim to supernatural revelation. The problem is that you require certainty of the Bible rather than a reasonable faith; meanwhile you give naturalism the benefit of the doubt due to your own confirmation bias… which is why,
as someone who has been on both sides of this equation, I caution you against judging Bible-believers as merely credulous.
Stooshie isn’t claiming that we’re ignorant; she’s noting that you think we’re ignorant. Now what is it that compels you to come on sites like this and pick a fight when you think that all you have is this life?
“which causes them to disbelieve the validity of supernatural revelation”
So Mohammed’s revelations were valid? The revelations in the apocryphal new testaments are valid? If not, why not?
How on earth do you distinguish between valid and invalid supernatural revelations?
Well, let’s see: any revelation which contradicts alleged revelation which is established and validated by fulfilled prophecy for starters. Conversely, any “revelation” which was delivered by a false prophet is equally false. And despite your incredulity, that didn’t take much thought to parse at all.
Rev Breeden, is this post still active? I just wanted to say I appreciated your patient answers to the posts. It affirms my belief in the Word and my teachings. If it was as easy as; renounce your sins and turn from them and to believe that Jesus is our only salvation. I think the doubters would find peace. Oh wait, it is that easy. Is it so hard to believe what is in the Bible? People believe everything in a history book. The Bible is a history book. I grew up going to a parochial school and was an altar boy. It was truly the happiest memories of my childhood. I loved serving the Lord in this capacity. I went to public school in my freshman year. I was well beyond the education curve, but was not prepared for non-secular life in my teens. I eventually fell away from the church and God. I was in the US Navy and I know that the Lord was with me, otherwise I would not be here now. I would cry and ask God “why is all this bad happening to me?” I’d blame Him for divorces and ask Him “were are you?” 7 years ago, I went back to church. I was filled with the Holy Spirit and again washed in the water. Is my life always happy and the like? Nope. I struggle with lots of things. I ask forgiveness, a lot. I don’t do everything the “right” way. I’m only a man. I know and believe that I live in the Grace of God. I don’t argue with anyone about religion nor do I witness or talk anyone into believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. All I’ve ever said to a non believer is “you better hope that your right.”
Hi Joseph I’m glad to see that you are happy with life. I would like to take issue with your assertion that God was looking after you when you were in the armed services. I’m glad you survived too by the way but the implication that God picks and chooses who to save and who to allow to be killed is very disturbing. You were a lapsed Christian during that time by your own admission and he chose to save you rather than others who might have been Christian to their core. It doesn’t make sense. I know that god works in mysterious ways but that would have to be perverse wouldn’t it?
You are alive and well and that’s the most important thing. Bless you
Why would that be perverse? God promises no special favors but rather He sends harvest rains to both the just and the unjust. Besides, your logic makes no sense: a merciful God might allow a Christian to die in battle knowing that man would instantly enter Paradise while allowing a lapsed Christian more time to repent; what’s perverse about that?
“Is it so hard to believe what is in the Bible?”
Yes as much of it is demonstrably wrong.
Sweeping generalization. Yawn.
Sweeping, perhaps, but true nonetheless.
It really isn’t, and offering that oft-refuted chestnut here, especially without any attempt at qualification, tells me that no one needs to take you seriously
Tony, I stumbled across this website while looking for more information about Noah. I found it very informative and wondered what your background is and how you have learned so much? Our Sunday School Class is currently going through the three year Answers In Genesis Study. I have learned a lot during the last two years. I think you are doing a good job and are also showing temperance and the patience of Job. Thanks for the website.
Patrick,
My background is given in the following post: https://siriusknotts.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/why-i-am-a-creationist-3/
Thank you for the encouragement.
Dear Tony, if you had a dog and despite giving it everything it could possibly want and giving it all your love. The dog disappointed you with its terrible behaviour. Very reluctantly and with the heaviest heart you decided to have it put down. You could give it a painless death with a very quick injection, no suffering at all. Or you could fill its world with water and watch it slowly run out of energy and die horribly. If you were a loving owner which would you choose to do?
Forget the bible and the scriptures and just think as a man and tell me about the dog. I dare you.
Peter ( a child of God)
You are not a child of God, Peter, for your every word is reflection of your true father: the Serpent who asked, “Did God really say?”
Your analogy fails because, we are not talking about a naughty dog; we are talking about the spiritual and moral equivalent of the zombie apocalypse.
I am not a child of God, kinda thought We all were even if we didn’t want it.
So they were like evil zombies. What all of them even the babies even the priests? Or do you mean stuff like masturbation and sex or coveting their neighbours possessions?
Jesus Himself made it clear that we are not all children of God in John 8:44, sir.
We are not sinners because we sin; we all sin because we are sinners. We were born with the spiritual defect.
Firstly if I am the spawn of satan should you be calling me ‘sir’
Secondly, what sort of sins were all the people on earth committing?
Respectfully yours
Peter
I generally assume that those I disagree with seek a civil discourse.
The answer to your second question is found on another post on this very site: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/before-the-flood/why-did-the-flood-happen/
Tony, would i be right in assuming that when Jesus talked about the poor, He was talking about the spiritually poor and not the physically poor? if we help the physically poor physically only are we really helping them? when Jesus said you have the poor with you always and you can help when you have opportunity, does that mean that the physical is less important? if i read the word correctly, my interpretation is He was talking about reaching them spiritually. another words, if you reach them physically, but not spiritually then you haven’t done what Jesus asked you to do.
As always, context determines the meaning of any particular passage. For example in Matthew 26:11 [cp. Mark 14:7; John 12:8], Jesus is definitely referring to the physically poor.
I would also caution you to be mindful of I John 3:17-18:
17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
By feeding the poor, we show the love of God in our hearts, an important element of meeting those spiritual needs; in other words, by feeding the poor, you are showing them that God loves them. There’s no dichotomy here.
first of all Peter, Jesus said he did not come into the world to condemn the world, the world was condemned before he came. the only way out of that condemnation is through repentance and receieving Jesus as savior and Lord. what keeps all people, from adam till this day, from receieving Jesus, is pride. this is the original sin. the main reason for having the Holy Spirit in our lives, is so we can be led away from sin and live the life that Jesus lived while he walked on this earth. we no longer have to sin, in the world we could not keep from sinning. its true that we are all born in sin because of what adam and eve did, but when a person receives Jesus, the new adam, we are born-again, and we no longer have to sin, we now have the power to overcome the temptation to sin. the key is reading the word of God and believing it. unfortunately there are a lot of people who say they believe in God, but their lives show differently because of their lack of reading the word. the more you read as a believer, the more your life is washed by the water of the word and the less you live for the flesh. God is not mocked, we reap what we sow. if we sow to the flesh we reap corruption, if we sow to the spirit, we reap eternal life.
Genesis 5:32 says Noah had 3 sons.
Actually, if you go back and actually read Genesis Chapter 11, it gives the ages of Noahs descendants from Shem to Abram, If you take the actual ages of when they were born you will find that both Aphaxad & Salah were born before the flood. And since they were alive after, it stands to reason that they were an the arc as well…
“1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all THY HOUSE into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.” (Gen 7:1)
“13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, THE SONS OF NOAH, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;” (Gen 7:13)
“Sons of Noah” is talking about Noah’s grandsons, rather than just Shem, Ham and Japheth.
Aphaxad was conceived 2 years after the Flood (Genesis 11:10). Since Aphaxad is Salah’s daddy, your entire argument for pre-Flood grandsons breaks down right there.
Salt water kils soil… How did all animals survive when the flood was over? Soil with high content of salt water is INFERTILE … Explain this and entertain all.
You presume the salinity of the ocean was equal to its present salinity which would not be the case if the Flood actually occurred; if you know a thing about creationist claims [and it’s looking like you did not really do your homework here], you know that we believe the rock layers were laid down during the flood and that the canyons, etc were carved out during the run-off period… the period where the ocean’s present salinity level would have been established.
sorry Tony, that does not sound correct. the assumption the water was salty is from observations. we know the process of saline appearing in water. if the water suddenly became saline, why is it not continuing to become even more saline at the same rate from the time of the biblical flood? The vast majority of fish who can accept saline water, cannot live in fresh water (and visa versa)- they die, salmon are an exception as they live in both environments. to do otherwise would require huge changes in the fish biology.
observation and ice cores tell us the water was salty way back when… you can obviously dismiss the evidence of fish, ice core samples, slow progression of salinity that we observe today, etc… but these are contrary to biblical accounts with no biblical account either way. experts who actually research the earth come to conclusions by supportive evidence, not guessing. until you actually do the research, how can this be dismissed?
you claim presumptions are made by scientific findings despite peer review on the topic, but what presumptions do you need to make the flood model work? massive genetic variation in just 1000 years, water coming up from the deep (despite the water not being there in the quantity needed), mountains being made taller by 10’s of thousands of feet in minimal time, the grand canyon being formed in a flood (despite rivers winding within the canyon), no-one else having boats, the Ark actually being able to float let alone take on the massive seas, food storage, animals only eating vegetation, an olive tree growing at mt Ararat (despite Mt Everest being covered in water), etc… you must apply a great deal of assumptions… yet still don’t explain kangaroos in Australia only.
it seems like when ever a scientific paper is presented and it does not disagree with the bible you will say “great more knowledge”, bu if it does not agree with the bible you will say “presumptions” without actually taking into account how the paper was created.
despite the above, I will make this simple, it does beg the question, what did all the animals eat when they got off the Ark?
Plants.
All of these “novel” questions you’ve come up with are answerable with perhaps 20 minutes of Googling or browsing a major creationist site. Don’t think so? Google the one about kangaroos. In the meantime, my advice eoukd be to find out what we believe first and disagree afterward; at least then you wouldn’t be disagreeing out of ignorance.
2 of every flesh also when God referred to flesh it was human .)
The Bible does not say that. Read it again.
First, thank you for answering my question which was “How did the world repopulate after Noah got off the ark?”
Second, I think it was Voltaire who said something about if there is no God, it would be necessary to create one.
Third, if you haven’t seen Dogma, do yourself a favor and watch it. Chris Rock plays an angel who points out it is better to have ideas instead of beliefs because what a person believes is nearly impossible to change.
Fourth, nevermind, this is an exercise in futility.
First, you’re welcome.
Second, I agree that God is a necessary entity for a rational existence.
Third, was Chris Rock’s character expressing a belief about ideas and beliefs or an idea?
Fourth, are you sure? And is that an idea or a belief you’re expressing?
Just wanted to comment on the 2013 thread, a ”demon” always chimes in !!!!
Its a good thing the Ark didn’t have as many holes in it as the bible.
Every “hole” in the Bible that has ever been proposed has turned out to be nothing more than a hole in the skeptic’s understanding of the text.
We understand what happened but the people descend all from Adam to Noah who were one race where did the difference in hair and skin colour come from to have the looks of Africans ,Chinese, Asians,European and others
We’ve answered this excellent question on our site here: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
If. All races were from noah how do they look completely different white and black and
The answer to your question is found at this article on our site: https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/after-the-flood/where-did-all-the-races-come-from/
tony breeden .. maybe yes or no that what your telling is right . my point here is just if the persons here whose commenting just respect it I’m respecting you for what you think is true or not but we all know that no one really know what really happen during god’s time whether there’s an evidence or non the main point here is we just have to be faithfull in god .. I’m not being hypocrite or being anti Christ but I am just stating what I also think is right .. but hey tony I’m impressive that you know many things about the bible 😀 that’s a compliment
Maria,
Respectfully, if we are discussing the historical truth of the Bible, being faithful in God would necessarily involve taking Him at His Word. I do try to be respectful for the most part; however, not all opinions are equally valid precisely because truth is knowable and absolute.
Dear Tony, the bible is in two parts I think you will agree. The New Testament is full of beauty and wisdom and above all love, based as it is on Jesus life. The Old Testament was written by only men at a time when only men had all the influence and power. They wrote their interpretations and human minds are not perfect and their thinking is based on their knowledge and experience of the world at that time. If we were to live our lives strictly according to the Old Testament then we would end up in prison and be appalling people to be around. If for example your daughter was raped then you should blame her. The rape of Dinah for example. If you are surrounded by armed men in your house would you give up your daughter? God is never vengeful and angry or punishing. The God of the Old Testament is not the same as the God of the New Testament so we need to see the bible more clearly. Bless you
Peter,
That’s poppy cock. Jesus quoted from the Old Testament and held it to be authoritative. The very reason Jesus was incarnated, crucified and resurrected is given in Genesis. The fulfillment of Old Testament Messianic prophecy validates Jesus’ Messiah status, and fulfillment of OT prophecy in general serves as a supernatural authentication of the text. It appears God is more complex than you would prefer.
As to the cherry-picked examples you provide. I’m arguing a loss to think of a verse that says rape is the victim’s fault. Certainly in the case of Dinah, her brothers exacted vengeance against the perpetrators suggesting that they certainly didn’t blame the victim there. I’m presuming that the other cases involves Lot when the Sodom items mob pounced on his door demanding that the angels of God be sent out to be raped. Aside from the fact that Lot was in an impossible situation, it remains that the Bible never says that sending his daughters out instead was OK with God.
I am thankful for the door that Jesus please open for me daily and I tried to do that door with humble prayers forgiveness thankful the mercy and Grace
A single well-substantiated fact irreconcilable with a belief is sufficient to prove that belief false.
All the faith based apologetic flim-flam in the world cannot vanquish facts. When there is contradiction between facts and faith, the truth remains in the facts, not in the apologetic spin.
The Bible, its gods, and its religions are proven frauds by every fact irreconcilable with the fairy tales contained within the Bible itself.
Hand waving. You’ve offered nothing of substance to answer. Meanwhile the Bible (which only has one Triune God, btw… glad to see we’ve bothered to do the homework) stands as the only authority that is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection of Christ.
I always wondered why people try so hard to disprove the bible,and while trying they discover how true their discoveries acually match the bible.it’s like asking the question,which came first,the chicken or the egg?either way one would still have to been created.we see it in everyday life.and for people that depend on radioactive dating,just remember that even those scientist only give it an accuracy rate of 2%.something cant come from nothing.
I am not adding but referring to WHAT the Bible says. That is all.
It says only 8 people. You’re adding more people when those other verses clarify that the way you’re translating these passages is wrong.
The bible states Noah’s wife and his sons three wives! Could it be possible that the sons each had three wives…the way it is worded? * It was not uncommon back then for an established man to have more than one wife…some were referred to as hand maidens but none the less were treated as wives!
The Bible also explicitly states that only 8 people were aboard the Ark [1 Peter 3:20]: Noah and his sons and their respective wives. So the math would not allow your scenario. Noah + Noah’s wife + 3 sons + 3 son’s wives = 8 people [1 Peter 3:20].
Does that mean the present human population on earth are the descendant of these 4 couple only….Actually three couple, because Noah and his wife must have been grown old and sterile. I just wonder what was the birth rate by these three couples.
We don’t really have to guess. The Table of Nations in Genesis 10 and 11 rather spell it out
I guess this means you assume that the genetic material of the animals was pure enough to handle incest as well? Considering there was only 1 pair of each?
The general opinion amongst creationists is that genetic viability has downgraded from purity ever since Adam. A substantial reduction in lifespans after the Flood likewise speaks of a genetic bottleneck. By the time of Moses, genetic integrity had downgraded to the point where a prohibition against incest was necessary.
So my question,, what did the lions,tigers and bears eat ? heck what about the crocodiles and alligators, how about the 8 souls on the ark ? What animals did they eat ? I’m gonna guess you can say they got water from the rain, you can’t live on water alone. I do bible studies and try to believe and have faith. The entire ark story is to far fetched for me.
Let’s not for get it took something like 150 – 227 days to find land. It would take a few more months for the water to recede. Just to far fetched
I’m not sure you understand the story well enough to make that assessment.
There are two pages on this site which address your questions:
https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/noahs-zoo/feeding-the-animals/how-did-they-feed-all-of-the-animals-on-the-ark/
https://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/noahs-zoo/feeding-the-animals/why-didnt-all-of-the-lions-tigers-t-rexes-oh-my-eat-everyone-on-the-ark/
So god chose noah and his family to be the only humans on earth to not suffer a fate of death by his hand ? only to later allow these animals to become meat eating killers ? So what was the point of having the ark in the first place. —- I know because of the massive sinning and he thought his invention was not as intended. My point then why save a sinner (noah) as all humans are not with out sin. So why not recreate ? why keep the same cookie if the old one is moldy ? I mean he still gave humans our own option for choice.There fore we will sin again. We are no better off now then back then. evil is every where’s and no human is with out sin, yourself included.— disease ,viruses, death pain suffering is running rampant. 7 deadly sins sure come to mind at this point
Clearly the reason for the Flood wasn’t about an abandonment of a vegetarian diet, so we’ll ignore those comments.
God’s given reason for sparing Noah is grace. I’m assuming that you’re not ungrateful for His decision since you benefitted as Noah’s descendants. What you’re arguing here is that God should’ve done something different therefore the tale isn’t true. Fine. HOW do you know that God would’ve or should’ve done something different? The Bible is the only authority that is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the resurrection of Jesus. The Bible also makes it clear that God planned our redemption from the foundation of the world, so I gotta know how you KNOW that the Flood couldn’t have happened based on your grasp of its future moral implications. Did it never occurred to you that the Flood was a mercy? That it prevented much worse harm and sin than we have thus far been able to manage? Do you not find it noteworthy that God will not even judge the world so severely until the Antichrist comes? What makes you suppose it’s as bad now as it was then?
Btw, Jesus mentions Noah and the Flood as a matter of fact.
So you’re trying to tell me that things were worse then, then they are now in Nigeria, Kenya, Ethiopia , where hundred of thousands of children will die basically every year. Terrorist blowing people up almost weekly,torture, nuclear war , Plain and simple the pain that people suffer just from electronics (ex. internet, tv ) bullying , suicides drug overdose.
As far as doing something different,,,There is a thing called trial and error, didnt work the first time as you are saying….. why would any thing change if nothing is done different. That is like telling a heroine addict he will be ok just keep doing heroine and you will be fine. Yes humans have a choice and can be good. Have you ever seen a child who raised them selves compared to a child who was nurtured. Huge difference.
We could do this for days. You could never show any true facts of any ark. Yes you could read the bible but if im not mistaken that also has changed over the years with each interpretation trying to explain something from years ago with no actual knowledge, in other words hear say. we all know how well hear say works. Get 5 people,, tell one person a short story, let that person tell one person the same story. You know as well as I do by time it gets to the 5th person the story will be no wheres near the original
Again, the Bible is the only authority that is supernaturally authenticated by fulfilled prophecy and the resurrection of Christ. As such, I will certainly take its claims as truth over any contradictory claims. It has not been changed to any significant degree as any decent Bible scholar could tell you. A quick look at the how careful the Masoretic scribes were in copying the text or how well the Dead Sea Scrolls matched up other fragments generally cures the honest seeker of the notion that the Bible has changed in ant significant way over time.
If you had bothered to study the Flood account, you would see that the ark dimensions and various other details given are quite realistic. Meanwhile there are Flood legends the world over that aren’t quite so realistic, featuring obviously mythic elements and arks of dimensions that are laughable. One is actually cube-shaped; there wouldn’t be a soul left alive after the first few waves sent it tumbling! Since tales tend to get less realistic and more fantastic as they get further from the source, it really does appear that the other Flood legends have moved away from the account recorded in the Bible. A local flood theory cannot account for the worldwide phenomenon of Flood legends.
If God had started over, His plan of redemption would never have seen fulfillment, meaning that God’s will would not be immutable as the Bible reveals. God can do anything except that which is impossible or against His revealed nature. Humanity was not and is not an experiment. The universe was designed originally perfect but with the real possibility that we could reject its Creator. As it turns out, that Creator is life, light, truth and a whole host of other things that we rejected along with Him. So we sinned against God and the tendency to sin runs like a spiritual virus in the creation He made in His image. Have you ever had to teach a child how to lie? No, they do so quite naturally. Even the best of us know what darkness lies in our hearts.
Fortunately, there was a failsafe, a plan of redemption that still allows for free will. Why would He abandon the plan? Especially since He has revealed that He is our Father. What loving Father just abandons all hope for His children and just moves on to another family?
Now you have shown neither evidence that you’ve actually bothered to comprehend creationist claims before spouting your two cents, nor any indication that you are willing to do so. You can be content in your willful ignorance and hubris, but do not suppose you will get a soapbox for it here.
What is the point of argument? Have you heard of blind faith? There are no scientific evidence to any of this! Your beliefs are mainly the product of your environment and geographic area you were born and raised. A child raised in Shaloin temple by Buddhist monks will never grow to be Baptist minister! My whole point is that no matter what very rarely either side is going to convince each other to see their point of view. One time I asked a bible scholar as to what happened to the rest of the animals that didn’t make it to the Ark? Did God drown them? His answer was about what I expected, God has plan for everything! It may be a sick plan, but nevertheless a plan! How are you going to use logic with blind faith! Enough said!
Since there have been Buddhists who became Baptists, you’ll excuse me if I ignore your really bad argument. Also, the fact that you characterize my position as blind faith without any evidence tells me that you have little comprehension of the arguments which you so vehemently oppose.
My question is if everyone died then are we not the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve but Noah and his family I know from the Bible the 1st men was Adam and then came eve based off that alone we are kids of Adam and Eve or there kids kids however it works but now after the flood should we not be kids of Noah ?
Noah was a descendant of Adam, meaning that we are still ultimately the sons and daughters of Adam
Do you not believe that the GOD of creation did not know these sons of Noah would need wives? Why do people think of only incest as a way for wives of men in the first days of earth?
If GOD created Adam and Eve he surely could create wives for any son born.
I have no reason to believe that God created wives for anyone but Adam because the Bible says that after the Sixth Day, God rested from the work of creation.
“Surely” is a red flag that you are using an appeal to personal incredulity, a logical fallacy. Your argument implies that not only did God specially create wives for Noah and his sons, but for everyone (or at least the majority) of mankind before them in order to avoid taking a close relative for a wife. This would also imply that the daughters of Adam were either superfluous or that God especially created husbands for them as well.
I love all of you and it’s hard to say what happened in those days
Could you help with a question that came up at a Baptisim class the teacher said that not everyone on the ark was saved. Thanks.
Physically saved? The Bible makes it clear that all eight persons aboard were in fact saved. Cross-referencing 1 Peter 3:20 with Genesis 7:13 makes it clear that there were only 8 people physically aboard the Ark.
Spiritually saved? There is no biblical warrant to suggest that any member of Noah’s family was unworthy to enter the Ark, like those who didn’t make the trip. Since only eight persons were aboard and since 1 Peter 3:20-21 says that these people were “saved by water,” which water symbolizes New Testament baptism, one would be hard-pressed to make an argument that anyone on board was not spiritually saved as well. I mean, it’s eight for eight, so…
If there is any particular argument that you have a question about, I would be happy to explore the subject further.
What’s wrong with you Americans? Why are you even discussing this? Nobody in Europe discusses whether the fairytale Little Red Ridinghood is true or not..
No one has ever supposed that Little Red Riding Hood was ever anything but a fairy tale because it was never intended as history. I also happen to know lots of people in Europe (and elsewhere in the world) who believe the Bible is true history, so perhaps you might consider widening your circle to avoid such hyperbolic error in the future.
How can you argue that the uniformity of nature is evidence of creation, when possibly the single most uniform aspect of nature is that life – in fact everything in nature for that matter – develops organically and incrementally over time, and that absolutely nowhere in our existence is anything “created”, with matter or life suddenly, magically appearing where there previously was none? That is blinding pseudo-logic. And then claim this is logically consistent and dismiss the scientific community as simply “interpreting evidence based on their worldview” – ostensibly all whilst not possessing any qualification or any kind of experience in the field of anthropology, botany, forensics, geology, genetics, micro-biology, paleoanthropology, paleontology, zoology, etc?
Nevermind the notion that a small Jewish family were capable of traversing the ends of the earth and capturing, transporting, feeding and managing a few MILLION air-breathing land animals and we all descended from this band of super-zookeepers….
Your first paragraph is breathtaking nonsense. Perhaps you didn’t comprehend my argument while you were busy setting up an appeal to credentialism and expertism.
Your second paragraph assumes that a Biblical “kind” is equivalent to a species. This misconception is explained on every major (and minor) creationist website. Perhaps in the future you might consider comprehending your opponent’s argument BEFORE you bother opposing it.
Nice explaination God bless you send me the link so that I can stay connected with you.
Kingdompowercenter7@gmail.com,
I have a question which makes me doubt a little bit. The bible says only 8 people were saved during the great flood. But according to the book of Jasher they were 400 not 8 ? Which one telling the truth?
The Book of Jasher that is floating around now is NOT the same book mentioned by the Bible. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jasher_(Pseudo-Jasher)
Recently, Our family has had a caucasion/negroid marraige. Being a Christian, I believe in marraige between each kind, keeping the races together. Our church is split over the issue, and am seeking other viewpoints on the subject. I am NOT a racist person as many try to accuse me of, because I am friends with folks from every color. Just because I disagree with white folks bedding black folks, or black folks bedding white folks doesn’t make me racist. So with that said, keep the racist accusations out of the conversation when replying please.
This is a grave misunderstanding of what a Biblical kind (or baramin) is. Dr. Georgia Purdom and Bodie Hodge note in chapter 4 of the New Answers Book 3 concerning Biblical kinds:
All mankind can reproduce. We are all the same created kind.
Consider also that when Moses’ sister Miriam led an attempted coup against him, she led with the fact that he had married “a Cushite woman” (Numbers 12:1).
The rhetorical question “Can the Cushite change his skin?” in Jeremiah 13:23 implies black skin color. As a punishment from God, Miriam was struck with leprosy and “became white as snow” (Numbers 12:10) which is ironic.
Today’s life is compared to Noah’s days and we are urged to change our lifestyle and turn to God to save us.Amen
So, if Noah’s family were the only people to survive the flood and all humans are descended from them, that’s pretty incestuous.
Actually, the Biblical prohibition against marrying a close relative [which we now term incest] was not given until the time of Moses. By this time, genetic mutations had increased to the point where this was inadvisable due to possible birth defects, etc.
The bible is one of the most incorrect and inconsistent documents to ever been used by human as a reference for our morals values
So you don’t feel we should treat other people the way we’d prefer to be treated?
Is this just a story or a reality, how could god or God expect people who lived hundreds of kilometers from Noah’s ark to make it before it was locked up? Where did Indians Chinese and other groups of human beings originated if we consider they all died.
Would you please reference where the Bible says that the door of the Ark was opened to all those who wanted to be saved? I’ve been digging for this information but can find no reference. Thank you.
I believe it’s simply a useful Gospel analogy derived from the fact that Jesus and Peter used the Flood in their preaching and that Christ said that He is the Door. The Gospel is open to all today though many do not utilize that Door. One day, that Door will shut, just as God shot the Door of the Ark. Theoretically, if anyone had listened to Noah, “a preacher of righteousness” according to 2 Peter 2:5, and repented, they could have entered the Ark by that Door.
Something y’all seem to not understand, back in the time of Noah, people thought the world was flat. Therefore, it is conceivable, that the world being flooded could only be in the area where Noah built the ark. Please correct me if I am wrong. I was wrong one time before but it was so long ago, I don’t remember what I was wrong about.
I’ve been wrong before and admitted it both times. Of course, I was mistaken about being wrong the first time, which required the second admission.
You seem to be assuming that it was just a story, sir, but a version of the Flood account is found in nearly all cultures making it probable that this event was both actual and universal. I don’t know if Noah thought the Earth was flat or not. I do know it is irrelevant to the fact.
I don’t think the Almighty God intended for us to understand EVERYTHING, but without question to BELIEVE in the one who does. Which our Holy Father.